So yeah, the VIN is fake

[akwikz]

Guys,

It's been a while since I last posted. I have been occupied with the day to day for a while now and have only recently had some free time. Anyhow, as most of you will recall, I bought the '73 K"P"GC110 last year. You all know the story behind it. For a while things never set quite right. I always knew that there was not just a possibility but a probability that the story was not legit. And that is exactly what I found. I decided to take a wire wheel and brake cleaner to the VIN stamp and guess what I found. Yep, K-H-GC110. So, in reality the car is an Aussie 240K. The "Nissan" I.D. plate under the hood? A photocopied fake glued to an aluminum plate. Granted it was more convincing under the plexiglass cover. The pics some of you saw of the VIN stamp were most likely right after the forgery was done and primered. I have taken pics but they are not too clear. I was made a tracing that is a bit more clear that I can post later if there is interest.

Now, I'm not asking anyone to feel sorry for me here. I always suspected this and took this into consideration when I bought the car. For an American like myself getting a Kenmeri in this overall condition for what I paid I still made out. And the car has been turned into exactly what I had planned.

Someone did a lot of work to carry this out. Not just the work on the car but the defrauding of the title and registration. I would assume that is no small task. Here in the U.S. it is nearly impossible to simply "fabricate" a VIN that was never officailly imported. You need to show evidence of the cars importation and passing of Customs before you can register it.

Anyhow, I thought it only fair that I pass my findings on to all of you. A few here were quicker to figure it out than I was. I guess I was somewhat guilty of some wishful thinking, even with my suspicions. I am not going to openly admit what is really on my mind, but I will say that there is almost no way the previous owner could not be aware of at least some of this.

Brian

[e_racer1999]

man, that sucks! can you take any action towards the PO?

[ctcurnes]

Bad news indeed. I know I was pulling for it to be genuine. Now you can build the beast without concern for the pedigree though. Good luck with your build!

[Walter Moore]

That is bad news.

What effect does that have on you in regard to your California title to the car?

I always shutter when I think about dealing with any BMV...

[HS30-H]

Anyhow, I thought it only fair that I pass my findings on to all of you. A few here were quicker to figure it out than I was. I guess I was somewhat guilty of some wishful thinking, even with my suspicions. I am not going to openly admit what is really on my mind, but I will say that there is almost no way the previous owner could not be aware of at least some of this.

Brian,

As has been mentioned, at least you now have the satisfaction of knowing the truth about the car's identity - which clears up a lot of speculation and past mysteries. Hats off to you for getting to the bottom of it and posting your findings here. You obviously have the honesty and integrity that the previous owner was lacking.........

Just in case anyone wants to look a little deeper into the story, the car was originally discussed here:

Introduction by owner:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12221

Part 2:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12259

...and then we had a deeper discussion about it here, when it was offered for sale and finally purchased by Brian:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24937

Best wishes to you and the car for the future, Brian. I know you are going to make it into a beauty, and won't need to be telling any fibs about it's true identity in the way that the previous owner did.

Alan T

[twsutt]

Brian,

Could you post a picture of the "reveal" for those that so adamantly refused to believe that this number was anything but an anomaly.

Alan,

It would seem that you were right about the most important part - that Brian would get to the bottom of things.

Thanks,

Terry

[akwikz]

Thanks for the kind comments. To answer your questions;

I doubt there is any recourse to take with the previous owner. All I can do is pass this along to anyone interested and suggest to them that they stay clear of any dealings with him. I would be interested to hear any rebuttal he may have though.

As for the DMV, here is what I have found. The KPGC110 VIN will have to stay. All of the paperwork connected to the car coming into the U.S. dating all the way back to the prior Australian registration shows that VIN and the MVD would consider anything else a "typo" at best. It makes no real difference to me personally, but if I ever end up selling the car I will obviously need to disclose and explain the circumstances to any buyer.

And here is the best pic I could get. It may be a bit difficult, but you can see how the "H" was modified.

Pretty sad that someone would go through so much trouble to pull a hoax that was fairly easy to disprove.

Brian

[Mat Big Hat]

bummer. bizarre. i mean, how many people really know the difference (or care), especially years back when (or whenever) he did the deed? and it's not like he made big money selling it as a gt-r :stupid:

[HS30-H]

All I can do is pass this along to anyone interested and suggest to them that they stay clear of any dealings with him. I would be interested to hear any rebuttal he may have though.

Ray appears to have recently signed up as a member ( again going by the screen-name 'Prince' ) over at the Japanese Nostalgic Car forums:

http://www.japanesenostalgiccar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=921

Maybe that would be a good place to ask him some questions in public? In my opinion, the man ought to be blackballed by any Nissan / Prince / Datsun community that he is a part of. I can't see how he can claim innocence of this prefix changing.

bummer. bizarre. i mean, how many people really know the difference (or care), especially years back when (or whenever) he did the deed? and it's not like he made big money selling it as a gt-r

Mat,

My impression ( based partly on private e-mails that he sent to me about the car's identity ) was that he didn't originally realise that the KPGC10 had it's own body number sequence, and he was under the impression that all GC110s shared a common body sequence. Hence he didn't alter the body serial number on his car, leaving it as a too-high anomaly. This is one of the things that set the alarm bells ringing.

Overall, I think there's a big possibility that he originally started down this path just to satisfy his own needs - and wasn't necessarily thinking about defrauding anyone. I reckon he might have gone too far down the road of no return, and having obtained paperwork to match up with the faked prefix he could not turn back. Ultimately, he just fooled himself.

Alan T.

[260DET]

Ah, I know this person, am not surprised.

[ovenfood]

Both me and my mate know this guy also. we thought it was a fake but didn't know for sure. Its real disappointing, he has been ruffling a few feathers recently.

[Mr Camouflage]

It a serious offense to alter the vin in a Car.