Bad eBay Experience w/ Door Panels

[jonathanrussell]

I do not see this crowd or myself defending the seller or eBay.

I went on the light side with comments relating to the issue of caveat emptor (Let the buyer beware). But really, that is the absolute bottom line here. EScanlon hit the nail on the head. The only thing that I differ on slightly is that I seem to have more faith in the eBay feedback system.

I have been burned by sellers on eBay too. But really, if I was dropping over $300.00 on something, I would be at fault if I did not exercise due diligence.

I have learned the hard way that not all sellers are as honest as I am when I do listings.....

I remain optimistic that there may be a resolution to this, but it will take a lot of effort.

Your response, like EScanlon's and like others in other threads I have read on the same topic, seems to say the same thing though...."we feel for you and you are right but you should have done more". All I am saying is that you can only exercise so much due dilligence. Ebay needs to be more aggressive about going after this type of seller. In my opinion, this auction ad was dead clear that the items were in a condition very different from what was received by the buyer (actually, after looking more closely at the auction I realized that I bid on it too). More than that though, the auction ad was purposefully misleading. And, as another person on this thread has commented, ebay's response to complaints is terrible. And, like others have said, the feedback game is mostly a sham. For the most part, anyone with a really good feedback rating is not likely to leave bad feedback because they will receive the same thing back from the lying fraudulent seller. And, as happened in this case, ebay does not care that the good guy got bad feedback. Bottom line, if you are going to play the ebay game you are going to eventually get screwed and you merely have to be okay with that. In my case, I have made many purchases and I just factor in the reality that x% of the time I am going to get stuck with something that is misrepresented. What ebay needs is competition. That is the only way they will ever give attention to any of this.

[EScanlon]

Having checked out the listing myself, I can see Julio's aggravation.

There definitively is NO indication of repairs, and the description is too blatantly skimpy for my taste. The additional pictures appear bona-fide good pictures, but can also be said to be purposedly taken at an angle that hides the repair.

I agree with John's point of "a case of "misrepresentation by omission" versus the classic "they out-and-out lied"...". It decidedly looks like that after reading the description and Julio's post. Again, I agree with John's point of $30 vs. $300. I think you should definitely contact e-Bay and make the misrepresented argument immediately.

Also, I don't see my post or the others as defending e-Bay or the seller, although I can see why someone would misinterpret it that way. Too often we convey evil intent to a person's intentions, and while that DOES happen, it isnt necessarily the case EVERY time someone gets "burned" on e-Bay. Many times, more often than not, it is someone wishing to get a "steal of a deal" and willing to overlook blatant indications of a swindle.

Nigerian scam anyone? Why do you think it can STILL catch people with it? Because greed overcomes caution in many instances.

How about the Irish Sweepstakes ticket you found out someone bought for you and it won? Just send us $50 in handling fees and we'll send you the ticket so you can claim the big prize...

Or the infamous......

Get the drift?

That's where TANSTAAFL comes in, and too many people think they are starving and dive right in.

2¢

E

[Walter Moore]

When I first got my 240Z I bought a lot of parts on Ebay, thinking that I was saving money.

I haven't bought anything there in at least a year. I don't even check the ads anymore. Almost everything that is available on Ebay can be purchased from an actual business, usually for less, and almost always in better condition.

There are some exceptions to that rule. Some people actually use Ebay to clean out their attic or sell off the good parts of a car that just cannot be fixed. But those people rarely have feedback ratings in the thousands...

[EScanlon]

Your response, like EScanlon's and like others in other threads I have read on the same topic, seems to say the same thing though...."we feel for you and you are right but you should have done more". All I am saying is that you can only exercise so much due dilligence. .

Actually, you CAN exercise a bit more diligence... you can choose to NOT participate. If it smells like a fish, it's not going to turn out to have been lamb. The description being so skimpy, the pictures showing no chrome strip, the lack of detail in most of them literally screams out that it may be not quite it purports to be.

Ebay needs to be more aggressive about going after this type of seller. In my opinion, this auction ad was dead clear that the items were in a condition very different from what was received by the buyer (actually, after looking more closely at the auction I realized that I bid on it too).

I'm sure that if you could come up with a definitive profile for e-Bay to use that will precisely identify the "type of seller" you are referring to, they will point out that it is prohibitive to implement. It could even be argued that you fell prey to the "trap" you insist was being built. The only trap I can see is where someone would think that the seller didn't know he had a valuable piece and they were going to buy it cheap. There's a reason Fool's Gold got its name...

If foresight were indeed an effective sense, then we wouldn't need others to profile bad sellers. If everyone were 100% honest, then we would not have to worry about...... Sorry, this type of wishful thinking is just that, wishful. The sad fact is that the only way to protect yourself is to not think that someone is willingly going to cheat themselves and not you.

More than that though, the auction ad was purposefully misleading.

How? There wasn't enough text in the ad to mislead you other than by your own wishful interpretation of a few cheap photos.

There are all of THREE sentences in the first post:

This is a set of door panels from 1972 240z. They are balck and in very good shape. Not sure what other models they might fit.

And another THREE in the second post by the seller:

I have added these picures for the questions I have gotten. Hope they help. The fuzzies are only fair buyer might want to replace them, depending on the quality they want.

If anything this lack of description SCREAMED...Be Careful!!! or simply:

CAVEAT EMPTOR!

However, Julio should, as I stated before, approach on misrepresentation by omission rather than fraud.

2¢

E

[Oiluj]

I do appreciate all the support and input. Thanks!

I actually have quite a bit of eBay buying experience. I usually expect to pay about 1/2 to 2/3 the new part cost for good, used parts on eBay.

I purchased over 25% of the parts on eBay for my previous project, a 1960 MGA, and never had a single problem. (I recently sold the MG after 17 years). I'll be selling a few of left-over MGA items from that project on eBay soon, for much less than their actual value. Hopefully someone else can use them.

FWIW, I do think the seller purposefully mis-represented the panels. I did ask the seller questions, just not the "right" question... Even someone not familiar with a specific vehicle should know such an obvious flaw needs to be disclosed.

Regardless, I do intend to contact eBay, (tomorrow), but don't expect them to be of much help. As I indicated above, I've accepted that I'll either have to resell them for less than I paid or invest in new skins. All part of the "adventure" of restoring my new toy...

Heck, I'm still grinn'n cause I got a Z !

[DeesZ]

Your response, like EScanlon's and like others in other threads I have read on the same topic, seems to say the same thing though...."we feel for you and you are right but you should have done more".

Yes, that pretty much is what I am saying.

All I am saying is that you can only exercise so much due dilligence.

To paraphrase what EScanlon wrote, 'many times we are willing to overlook indications of a problem' and substitute wishful thinking for due diligence.

And, like others have said, the feedback game is mostly a sham. For the most part, anyone with a really good feedback rating is not likely to leave bad feedback because they will receive the same thing back from the lying fraudulent seller. And, as happened in this case, ebay does not care that the good guy got bad feedback.

Yes, leaving negative feedback does open the door for the same to be left for you. It's called retaliation. Kinda like real life, isn't it? Our words and actions tend to bring similar things back our way. But, there are times when it is most appropriate to leave negative feedback, and this situation seems to be one of them. You may also note that the seller was not experienced (or smart) enough to withhold leaving feedback until he/she knew that the buyer was happy. In this case retaliation doesn't seem to be an option for the seller.

And where in this case did the good guy get bad feedback? Looks to me like the bad guy got the bad feedback.

Bottom line, if you are going to play the ebay game you are going to eventually get screwed and you merely have to be okay with that.

Yep. To a large degree you are right. Just like Vegas (but in reverse).... a reasonable person should expect to loose in Vegas, but sometimes you win. Isn't it funny that most people go there with grand dreams of winning? Seems that the same emotion brings many people to eBay, but the chances of a good result can be increased tremendously by exercising common sense and due diligence in tandem with the principle of caveat emptor.

What ebay needs is competition. That is the only way they will ever give attention to any of this.

eBay has competition. None of it seems to be 'worthy'. The competitors usually end up with a high percentage of sellers that have been thrown off of eBay. Exceptions to that are the competitors that have filled gaps created by eBay (e.g. for firearms, related parts, etc.)

If there is a better selling/buying community out there, please show me where it is, and I will be there posthaste.

As much as I disagree with some things that eBay does, I will compliment them on trying to keep their community free of bad apples. If the feedback system offers up enough evidence that a seller is a bad apple, they will get rid of it. How many sellers do you see with less than a 95% positive rating?

Here's a thought, and I offer it sincerely: I have had my best luck purchasing Z-car related parts from the classified section on this website. The members here are a very honest and helpful gang. You must still watch out... there are people that drop in out of nowhere, make a posting or two to sell stuff, and they are gone... but that is the exception.

[Mr Camouflage]

They look to have been painted with vinyl spray or similar (can of spray paint perhaps?). Thats why the chrome strip is black too. It's actually blue underneath the chrome foil.

p.s. dont get me started on all the problems with ebay. Although, i've had mostly positive experiences.

[barth4567]

When I first got my 240Z I bought a lot of parts on Ebay, thinking that I was saving money.

I haven't bought anything there in at least a year. I don't even check the ads anymore. Almost everything that is available on Ebay can be purchased from an actual business, usually for less, and almost always in better condition.

There are some exceptions to that rule. Some people actually use Ebay to clean out their attic or sell off the good parts of a car that just cannot be fixed. But those people rarely have feedback ratings in the thousands...

Exactly right. I have bought off of E-bay with good success. It does not take long to find the good e-bayers. There are some sellers on there that just should not be there. Period. The engine guy (Ur-Gellis) for one. I don't even look unless there rating is 99% or better. Read the feedback. $300.00 for used door panels? Wow!!! I have learned over time to accumulate my extra parts off of local wrecked cars or from or thru a "very small" group of Z car people that I know. I would have looked at some aftermarket panels from MSA or something. However, just my opinion. Or post a question on this website concerning the buyer. The guys and gals are pretty savvy about knowing who and who not to buy from. Buyer Beware. I have been there.

[Oiluj]

If you remember I had a problem with some door panels I bought about 1-1/2 months ago on eBay.

I filed a dispute w/ Pay Pal and yesterday they ruled in my favor. Seller agreed to refund my money upon reciept of the door panels. I'm out about $30 for shipping, but that's OK. Happy ending!

Also, I purchased another set of panels from the seller in Canada. Very nice reproductions with chrome strip that appear to fit fine...

[EScanlon]

Good for you! That's the way it SHOULD work.

E

[justinr54321]

Julio, grats, and its about time on the dispute part, . Glad things worked out for ya.

[Montezuma]

Please alert us if the show back up on Ebay.