Low Mileage Series I on Ebay

[xray]

Good points, all...But we should not be so quick to shout down someone's offering price. The cluster of "first Japanese sportscars" like the Cosmo/RX2-3, S600/800 and 1600/2000/240Z are gaining traction in the car world, and NADA/SCM values are reflecting that. FWIW, Leno has just completed his S600 restoration to go along with his Cosmo, so there's some support in the broader car market...

Despite mostly reversible changes to the car (and the big assumption of body condition), this car should bring good money in the 16-18krange. If not, he's not selling it correctly (not supplying pics, the whole "been there, done that" commentary) and/or offering it to the wrong crowd by using EBay. Sure I'm hoping it gets more, but we should enjoy the improving market of the Z, right?

Unfortunately, with the apparent upcoming economic retraction, interest in collectible cars may take a hit, but that's a different discussion...

[Arne]

Last year Classic Motorsport Magazine (March 2007 issue) put the 240Z on their Watch List, saying that clean rust-free cars (mostly from the West Coast) at $7-10k were a good buy, and sure to get more expensive in the coming years. This year's Watch List (March 2008 issue) still lists the 240Z, but they now claim that clean rust-free cars are frequently trading for $10-15k, and that we should buy them now before they get to $30k in a few years. FWIW.

[geezer]

Even if there are some things that need to be corrected in order to bring this car up to the next level, it is a far cry from a restored example. That is the appeal this car has. He is getting cheap global exposure on Ebay. Cars like this have a good chance of changing hands later on from a contact made while this listing was active. Nice car, but priced at a level where you might not want to put too many miles on it, for fear of it being devalued. I think what he is asking for it is a little on the high side, but if I was selling it I probably wouldn't think that way, if that makes any sense. One thought I had. Do those seats look like they have logged 39K?

[JonnyRock]

One thought I had. Do those seats look like they have logged 39K?

Those seats look amazing.

[geezer]

I like this car - it was listed last year. When you think about that '72 barn find from a year ago that went for 13,500, this one is running, low milage and appears to be almost perfect. I'm thinkin he got the price right.

If I won the lotto.....

I love that colour too.

Go for it Sailor Bob...the Canadian dollar is still looking pretty good!!

[Sailor Bob]

Well that Canadian dollar looks pretty good. I'm facing courtwork (EX wife #2) - no new aquisitions in my near future.

If the undercarriage is as good as he says, he should post some well lit shots to show it off.

[JLPurcell]

I was the high bidder last time it was listed on Ebay, $14,500 was the final bid I believe, I had bid 16K but my bid was not pushed any higher. The reserve was not met. This car is in great shape but I did not then nor now think it was worth his asking price. I had Carl take a look at the listing and he agreed with my assessment. I made a higher offer than Carl thought was reasonable, “a couple of years ahead of the current market”, which insulted the seller. I had the owner send me tons of photos. I thought that this survivor would be a great car to refresh before the problems surface. I have attached Adam's reply to my offer.

“I'm confused about is the fact that you "Z" guys are so organized that you COULD make the market but don't. If you want these cars to appreciate your group needs to do it. Don't sell your cars so cheep. You of all people know what it takes to restore one, so when a real original is up for sale (and it's not every day) do something about it. The fact is this is not a Corvette or a Camaro or even a Dodge Dart. The market for this car is you guys and a group of others. Once you all decide you want your cars to appreciate you'll make it happen but escalating your high dollar cars to the point where they mean something. If my car made the blogs and was discussed then you guys should keep it out of the hands of some guy who for 12 or 14K will let his 17 year old drive it to HS. In addition your expert said that "Given the area of the country it's in" what does that mean? BTW I'll let the car sit outside in the snow and rot before I sell it for 14-16K!”

I had offered 16K knowing that one could easily put another 3 to 4K in the car to insure it maintains it’s current condition. That is not to say it would not be worth the 20K to someone!

Jerry

[lonetreesteve]

I for one don't think $20k is to far out of line for a Series I with only 39K miles and still has its original paint and interior that are in decent shape. As the old saying goes, "Cars are only original once". The seller just seems to have a chip on his shoulder and needs an attitude adjustment if he wants to get what he's looking for. He also needs to post more pics or provide a link to a website that has more pics.

[DeesZ]

I agree that 20K is on the high end, but isn't too awfully bad IF the vehicle is as advertised, but I also feel stronger that $16K was more fair to all... After all, a 'preventive refresh' as suggested (wisely) by JLPurcell brings the cost to that $20K.... and the things that y'all have surfaced as 'not correct' make one wonder what else there is. His attitude and intentional lack of description/pictures would scare me off from exchanging any of my cash with him. Further, he's got no credibility rating - "0" feedback. Kinda funny that the depressed prices on these vehicles is our fault in his eyes. His eyes do see things differently, don't they; but we are all entitled to our point of view. He may have the opportunity to watch it rot as he suggests. That would be a sad sight from any point of view. This is the type of person who would cut off his own nose to spite his face. Not my kinda guy to deal with. Personally, if someone is in the market for something like this, I would dig deep within, pull out some patience, and wait for the next one (or this guy to lighten up).

[mally002]

I agree with you Deesz,

His feedback and attitude would keep me far, far away. Also, to actually say he would rather it rot than to sell it for 16k.......thats just nuts.

20k, sure if it was a lower vin.

16K, perfect for this car.

18k, if all the "refreshing" is done a very fair buy.

Just my humble thoughts........

[KAMKA-Z]

The fact is this is not a Corvette or a Camaro or even a Dodge Dart.

I'll let the car sit outside in the snow and rot before I sell it for 14-16K!

Someone's been watching too much Barret-Jackson.

Nice car though. I have so much more work ahead of me than that one needs.

[Carl Beck]

Hi Guys:

I believe the seller is very confused as to who sets the market for these cars. He is also sadly confused as to exactly what market his Z would sell into.

In broad terms:

There is a Collector Market

There is an Enthusiasts Market

There is a Restorer's Market

There is a Parts Market

It is true that a car is original only once. What this seller seems to miss is the fact that his car having been used for 39K miles - is no longer "original" in the eyes of the Collector. It's a used car to them and as everyone has pointed out - it has lots and lots of flaws that no Collector would accept. True Collectors will pay the highest prices, but only for real #1 or #2 condition cars. These 240-Z's are selling for between $20K at the bargain end and $35K at the top end. The car we are discussing is at best a #3 condition car as it sits now.

It is true that a car is original only once. What the seller fails to understand, is that real enthusiasts would love this car for being so well cared for, so stock, so unmolested etc., but they also know that lots of cars like this can still be found in the $12K to $14K range. They know the values of the cars in the Enthusiast's Market... and sometimes they will pay a few grand over the current market to get a car they really love... The seller is silly to expect Enthusiasts to pay more..... Look at Arne's Z with 65K miles for something less than $6K (was it?).. vs the current offering with 40K miles at $20K.... just isn't that much difference.

It is true that a car is original only once. Restorers want as original as possible, but they aren't willing to pay anywhere near as much as the Enthusiasts, because the overall condition of the cars they buy are far below the cars the Enthusiasts buy. A restorer is going to strip the car to a bare body shell and start over - so faded paint won't matter, the car doesn't have to be in top road worthy condition, scratches, minor dings and cosmetic flaws won't matter - because everything is going to be refreshed or restored anyway. The car under discussion is way to nice and way to expensive to appeal to the restorers. The 71 here in St. Petersburg with less than 40K original miles and really all stock and original - is the perfect car for a serious restorer - even at $6K.

When we are talking about an "original" car being worth more than a correctly restored car - keep in mind that the 240-Z under discussion, as well as all of them like it - are really no longer "original".. time and use have destroyed their originality. When you look under the hood of this car, do you see bright shinny Cad Plated parts.. as original? Or do you see parts that the Cad plating has sacrificed itself protecting, and are now dull silver with some corrosion? Do you see all the braided hoses looking like new - or most of the original braided hoses present but looking a little worse for wear?

Sorry but the car under discussion is no where close to "original" in the eyes of any Collector.. its just another low mileage used car. In the eyes of the Enthusiasts, it's a great example of a mostly original 240-Z, but the Enthusiasts definition of "original" carries a far different meaning than that of the Collector.

The seller had it sold for $20K - and if it had been exactly as originally described it would most likely have sold - - but it wasn't. Note the seller even admits that he had to detail it, even the undercarriage before offering it again on the market...

FWIW,

Carl B.