Trying to get her started

[xray]

Hmmm....

That looks right to me. Did you check to see if the piston is at TDC using the methods above? I suppose it's possible you could be at the bottom on your power stroke, but that would mean the cam timing is off and you've got bigger issues to deal with.

You still haven't answered whether the engine/head have been separated, or whether a replacement camshaft has been installed. I'd be a little suspicious that some "work" has been done given the red paint on the block. Was that engine known to run well before you bought it? Did you hear it run? You definitely should buy a compression tester--it probably has little to do with your current situation, but knowing those numbers could be helpful later.

Based on the FSM, the spark should jump about 6mm when you hold the spark plug wire (with a metal probe inserted) close to the engine block and the engine is cranked. If the spark is weak, the fuel mix could possibly extinguish it and cause it not to fire. Are you getting good voltage to your coil? Are your coil's primary and secondary resistance correct?

[ktm]

This is what I am referring to:

[beandip]

KTM, My L-24 had the indicator on the driver side, My F-54 block on the passenger side. I have seen it both ways . I now have a pulley that is going to go on the F-54 and this will change it to the driver side along with the pointer. I am changing because it is a light dampener. Like was gone over several times here. Find out if the engine and head has been separated and or if the cam was removed or changed.

[Nissanman]

Usually, the variation in sides is a result of whether or not the engine was fitted with AC.

Of course in the repair shop, a non-AC crank pulley may have been fitted to an engine with AC front cover timing marks, or vice versa.

Nothing mechanically wrong with that BUT, it puts the timing reference marks WAY out of whack:rolleyes:

[beandip]

Nissanman, you are absolutely right if this is the case. Funny thing though both of my engines were AC equipped at some point. I think you are right in that the pointer may just need to be repositioned on the other side. Gary

[Matches]

Wow thanks for all this guys. Really gives me a lot to work with!

I don't have much history on this engine. I was told it came from a running car that was wrecked. I bought it from a really nice guy who had bought it from a friend and just wanted to have it as a spare. I have no idea if it was originally equipped with AC, but I am guessing yes because my timing marks are on the drivers side of the engine. I do no know if the head had been removed or the cam replaced. All I know is what I was told, and that being the motor ran well.

I will go back out and verify that the piston is at TDC on the compression stroke, and compare the positions of the cam, crank pulley, crank keyway, and ignition rotor.

Thanks so much!

Get back you you all in a bit.

[Matches]

I bet you have the timing 180* off. A common mistake. When the #1 piston is at top dead center, and the lobes on the cam are pointing up like a V , the timing mark on the pulley should be opposite the pointer . The rotor in the dist then should be pointing to the #1 plug wire on the cap.

Wait, I thought that when the cam lobes are pointing up in a V shape ( 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock ) and the rotor is pointing at the #1 cyl spark plug wire, that the crank pulley mark should be @ zero right?

That is the way everything is now. And the piston is @ TDC as best as I can tell. I looked in the spark plug hole with a flash light and the piston is right there.

You are saying that the crank pulley mark should be opposite the pointer then?

[Matches]

There is a similar discussion on this problem which you might find helpful, http://classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27188

As previously mentioned, you may need to work backwards to determine where the TDC pointer and crank pulley notch need to be.

It is the KEYWAY on the crank that will tell you piston TDC.

How do I find this keyway? I can't see anything on the crank pulley that is obvious to me

[Arne]

Wait, I thought that when the cam lobes are pointing up in a V shape ( 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock ) and the rotor is pointing at the #1 cyl spark plug wire, that the crank pulley mark should be @ zero right?

More or less. Go by the cam lobes to get you close. Then use the piston in number one hole to fine tune. Do not pay attention to the direction the rotor is pointing until TDC is verified.

Try putting a pencil in the number one plug hole so that you can easily see when the piston gets to the top of its travel. When you have that spot identified and the cam lobes on number one are V'd upwards - then verify your timing mark at zero. Make any adjustments to the timing marker at this point. This is TDC.

Once you have TDC pinned down and marked, it's time to statically set the timing. Re-install the distributor cap, mark the distributor body where number one wire connects. Remove the cap and turn the distributor until the rotor is pointing towards that mark. Re-install the cap again. Pull the spark plug from number one, re-connect the plug wire to the plug and ground the plug where you can easily see the spark. Then turn on the ignition to run, not start. Turn the distributor clockwise just a bit, and then turn it slowly counter-clockwise until you see the spark at the plug. Tighten it down where it sparked.

That process should get you in the ballpark.

[Nissanman]

Wait, I thought that when the cam lobes are pointing up in a V shape ( 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock ) and the rotor is pointing at the #1 cyl spark plug wire, that the crank pulley mark should be @ zero right?

That is the way everything is now. And the piston is @ TDC as best as I can tell. I looked in the spark plug hole with a flash light and the piston is right there.

Well, that is sounding like everything is correct:nervous:

The keyway I'm referring to is on the snout of the crank shaft.

Unfortunately, it can't be seen until/unless the crank retaining bolt and washer are removed.

That is a job in itself.

Since you have determined that you are at TDC already, it may not be necessary to check the keyway, your call.

MAKE SURE the engine rotates freely at this point [with all sparkplugs removed] and piston/valve contact is not happening

Just turn it over with a socket and bar on the crank nut very slowly.

Once you are SURE that there is no problem, try cranking it with the starter and plugging the #1 cylinder with your pinky of choice.

Engine should build up a heap of pressure and blow your pinky well out of the way.

No pressure indicates valves still open on the compression stroke.

Here is a diagram showing the initial valve gear timing setup.

You can see the keyway pointing up at 12 o'clock.

The reference marks on the cam chain are a bit misleading because they only coincide with the cam and crank pulley marks once every X revolutions:ermm:

[xray]

I would advise nixing the idea of the crank keyway, as TDC has been positively ID'd if it is as you described. But, as pointed out earlier, once you have TDC manually identified you should mark it with new ink/paint opposite the 0 degree mark on one of the pointers (at this point it doesn't matter which, just be sure you stick with one of them consistently) and disregard whether it matches with markings on the crank pulley. All that matters is that #1 rotor position matches TDC on #1 as stated by Arne above. This is your "zero" position, and you should align the crank angle indicator on the distributor accordingly. Once your distributor crank angle indicator is zeroed, advance it 10 degrees (2 marks) as stated in the FSM.

If you have good spark and reasonable fuel delivery, it should fire up. "Should" being the operative phrase, because the engine remains a variable, regardless how friendly your buddy is. I still wonder about your ignition, since you stated the spark "looked weak."

Frustrating, I know. Hang in there!

[Matches]

Ok guys, I went with Arne's method and verified that all is well with the ignition timing and cam timing. Everything lines up just like you all say it should.

I tested spark with Arne's method as well, got it. I does look weak, but I don't have anything to compare it too.

I am thinking that it is time for me to buy a compression tester. Fearing the worst at this point.

Thanks so much for all the help so far guys.