Loop pile carpet, any recent purchases? (2008)

[Zup]

Got into the storage unit and pulled out an old carpet from the 7/70.

Shown are examples of the serged cutouts, etc.

The label has an original Japanese character and reads 46.10.1 (poor resolution camera )

The heel pad and cutouts for the carpet clips were sewn before the jute was applied, then the jute backing was sewn together with the carpet as the carpet was serged on the outside edges.

As can be seen, the carpet was a loop type pile.

I am sendng a sample to Bryan Owens (LBO370) so he can source the carpet and determine if he can serge the openings, etc.

Stay tuned if you have interest. :classic:

Jim D.

"Zup"

[bpilati]

Okay I had a talk with Les. He says that it wasn't so straight forward in the beginning as people might think. During the Z Store restorations, Nissan went out and bought the best Z's they could find, and apparently these were very original in their condition. Some came with loop pile and some with cut pile. The first Z's imported came with rubber mats only, and Mr K had carpet kits made by Chester & Herod using the rubber mats as templates. Apparently most loop pile was found on the east coast and but pile on the west coast. Loop pile is consider cheaper carpet. Now back in Japan they made the carpet kits using what they had available and wool carpets were showing up. I think Les said wool carpets are cut pile. Anyway, this is how I remember it, so don't shoot the messenger.

[Arne]

Okay I had a talk with Les. He says that it wasn't so straight forward in the beginning as people might think. During the Z Store restorations, Nissan went out and bought the best Z's they could find, and apparently these were very original in their condition. Some came with loop pile and some with cut pile. The first Z's imported came with rubber mats only, and Mr K had carpet kits made by Chester & Herod using the rubber mats as templates. Apparently most loop pile was found on the east coast and but pile on the west coast. Loop pile is consider cheaper carpet. Now back in Japan they made the carpet kits using what they had available and wool carpets were showing up. I think Les said wool carpets are cut pile. Anyway, this is how I remember it, so don't shoot the messenger.

Shoot the messenger? Not hardly, Bryan. What you posted here makes huge sense. After all, why should we think there would be any consistency in the carpet style and materials in 240Zs? Nothing else was consistent.

Shoot, everyone always says that 240Zs should have loop pile carpet. But there are obviously varying degrees of "loop-ness" to the carpet. The pictures of the different carpets posted in this thread show that clearly. Look at the pictures Jim posted just above -- very "loopy". The pictures from Mike's '72 look to have pretty defined loops too. Yet some of the '71s (like mine) show some loop-effect, yet the overall effect is almost that of plush cut pile. Heck, I had thought for months after I bought the car that mine were replacements, simply because it wasn't an obvious loop pile carpet. Only recently did it become apparent that mine are still original as well. This certainly supports Les' statement that "...back in Japan they made the carpet kits using what they had available..." as we are seeing the direct evidence in pictures here.

This truly complicates my choice of replacement carpet. If I want to maintain the original style of my car as close as possible (and I do), loop carpet may not be my best choice. I may want to go with cut pile on mine to be as close as possible to what it came with. Because cut pile may look closer to my original than loop. Pictures of mine are attached.

The heel pad and cutouts for the carpet clips were sewn before the jute was applied, then the jute backing was sewn together with the carpet as the carpet was serged on the outside edges.

As can be seen, the carpet was a loop type pile.

Not only does the pile on mine not match yours, Jim, the jute is not stitched to the carpet at all, but is separate. I can remove my carpet and the jute still lays in the car.

The label has an original Japanese character and reads 46.10.1 (poor resolution camera )

I'm thinking of selling my current camera to get a new one, Jim. Le tme know and I'll make you a deal!

[rtaylor]

Arne, my jute is not attached to the carpet either. This on a 2/71 car.

[westpak]

Mine either and also a 2/71 but it is disintegrating and have fibers all over the place

[Zup]

Bryan has replied and is working on the sample pile types, both cut pile and loop type.

The pic I posted showing the jute sewn in is not meant to do anything more than to show the variety of examples we Z'ers have in our cars. It's not a big issue with me.

Maybe we should try to reach a consensus amongst ourselves which might go like this:

1: Choice of a quality loop or cut pile type. (backing as yet to be determined--rubber, plastic, jute separate, etc.)

2: Serged and bound cutouts in various combinations case by case. (I.E.-carpet clip cutout, hatch strap cutout, notches for straps at rear edge, unsplit deck carpet, split deck carpet, etc.)

3: Optional colors for non-purists. :devious:

4: Patterns for early and later Series cars. (Storage or no Storage behind seat carpets)

I realize that this is obvious and rather simplistic, but sooner or later we will have to address it and see what will come of this endeavor.

Any and all comments or suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks a bunch for everyone's input to date!

Jim D.

"Zup"

[xray]

Finally got word back from Charlie Osborne. Sounds like he has a better pattern, but probably has an attached jute and no clips/snaps attached.

"Steve:

To answer your questions-

The carpet kit are cut close to OEM specs and look very good once in the

car. They do not have all the hold down clips. They have cut-out for the

luggage straps. They have the insulation backing but it is not horse hair

but a newer type. The ones I sell are probably the same as what everyone

else has.

Let me know if you are interested in ordering.

Charlie Osborne

Zedd Findings

603 Compass Court

Kingston, ON K7M 8V9, Canada

Tel: 613-389-1397 / Cell: 613-530-6801

www.datsunzparts.com

www.datsunzparts.ca

www.datsuns.net

Life's a Journey - Enjoy the Ride!

****************************************************************************

***

Comment:

Hi Mr. Osborne,

Is your carpet set cut to true OEM specs with the appropriate snaps for the

floor carpets, luggage strap cutouts, etc.? Is the underpadding attached?

Is it horsehair-like or the newer type of jute? I've tried every other

supplier and have come up empty on a true reproduction of the sectional

carpet for a 1972 240Z...

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve"

I also spoke on the phone with Mike McGinnis at Banzai, and he says he's just put slits in the floor carpets for where the clips are supposed to go, and has used aftermarket ("Mom and Pop" he calls them) snaps for their attachment to the firewall insulator. He has a few "misgivings" about the carpets sold by TIR and MSA, but that's hardly news around here...

For efficiency, I would suggest loop pile only and doing two varieties--early and late based on location of the tool boxes. Cut the jute to size, make it look professional, and keep it separate (at least for the rear deck.) This would allow for the earliest cars with rubber matting to have something cut to fit as well...Jim, maybe your contact has a supply of snaps that could be bought and attached by the buyer? This still leaves the clip question, but that could be tabeled until we get a sample made.

Since my carpets were destroyed prior to purchasing my Z maybe someone could make a tracing of the correct carpets (early and late with correct luggae strap cutout on the deck and driver's floor) and mail it to me? There are a couple of upholstery shops here in Raleigh that do restoration work, and I'd like to gauge their ability to help.

Thanks

[bpilati]

Why don't you talk to Les Cannaday about the reason for different carpets. First off, the Z was not originally designed with carpets, they came with rubber mats. When the first ones arrived, Mr K had carpet made, and only later did the factory supply them. This is the info I have, and apparently both loop and piles carpet were made. In fact the factory carpets were supposedly wool carpets that were pile. So it appears to me that there is no truly correct carpet. My car had loop pile in it when I got it, and I know this is was came with it. Pile carpet was used in the Vintage Z program, and that's what CDM sells, since they were one of restoration shops. Les also explained the reason for no snaps or slits in the carpet. Some cars didn't have the metal tabs on the floorpan and the clips weren't available from Nissan. I think there was also some misalignment with the snaps.

[geezer]

I am more than happy with the work that Bryan has done in the past. I will wait to see what information and carpet samples he comes up with. I am also relying on Jim (Zup), as he has the original examples that best suit my needs I believe.

[xray]

Bryan,

The purpose of the thread is to act as a current survey of carpet suppliers, which is why I contacted and added ZF and Banzai to the thread. I have already purchased (and subsequently resold) a CDM kit (inaccurate reproduction for my taste), and since someone has already posted their conversation with Les, posting mine would be needlessly redundant (as he told me the same thing.) The thread is also about outlining the variations in the stock Z carpet, from clips to backing material, and the compilation of info should help someone educate an upholsterer and maybe convince them to do a run of "as close to accurate as possible" carpet, knowing the possibility of selling several dozen units or more (conservative estimate).

Ron,

Jim wanted to see folks' opinions on how to proceed (see post 102), and I was posting my position on his 4-point "poll." The more people who respond (maybe to a formal poll?) the better we will understand the correct course to pursue.

I am also waiting on Jim's contact to see if anything pans out. I have some contacts here in Raleigh, but lack an adequate sample to take around, so I offered to help.

[Arne]

No, I haven't contacted Chester & Herod, but have been exchanging e-mails with a Z vendor about this.

FYI - the vendor I was working with stopped replying to my e-mails a bit more than 2 weeks ago. The last communication from him was that he was waiting on info from his supplier on the possibility of binding the slits in the front carpets on a special order basis. No reply to my further inquiries since then. I'm still not ready to write this off, but it's not looking as promising as it was.

Why don't you talk to Les Cannaday about the reason for different carpets.

Bryan, while I respect Les and have been happy with all the products I have bought from him, I must say that frankly, his attitude to my carpet questions was not at all encouraging. His response was, "if mine were good enough for the program cars, they must be good enough for everyone." Sorry, I can't buy that. Just because someone else thinks that's close enough, doesn't mean I will be -- or should be -- happy with it.

First off, the Z was not originally designed with carpets, they came with rubber mats. When the first ones arrived, Mr K had carpet made, and only later did the factory supply them.

Yes, that is true. My late '71 though, did in fact come from the factory with carpets. The fact that the first boat-load or two had rubber mats is irrelevant to my car.

So it appears to me that there is no truly correct carpet.

I'd call that statement partially correct. To be completely accurate it should read, "So it appears to me that there is no SINGLE STYLE of truly correct carpet." Obviously, we have examples in this thread of several variations, in cut, padding and pile type. But I KNOW what was original to my particular car, because I still have it. Why should I not try to source something as close as possible to what I KNOW that it came with originally? Why should I have to settle for "close enough for the majority of owners"?

[Zup]

Don't think that my lack of posting has resulted from a lack of interest!

Bryan has the sample, but it will take some time to get it together----patience is a virtue. I will let everyone know just as soon as possible.

I purchased a set of new loop carpets from DAT240ZG (Bryan Holmberg) over the weekend that he purchased new from LES at CDM.

Upon inspection, the best thing about it was that it was new and black.

Anyone with a sewing machine that would handle heavy fabric could have done it. The carpet behind the seats is flat---doesn't even have the "gore" cut and resewn so that it fits the contour of the area it covers--so it just kinda bunches up ---absolutely NOT good enough. Not even rear notches for the straps! Floor sweep lint underpadding flimsily glued to the carpet. I am surprised that they cut a notch for the accelerator pedal!

Good enough to freshen the DD '73, but a lame joke for the 7/70.

I'm guessing here. but for those willing to wait and spend a little more for quality and attention to even basic details, we WILL come up with a set that will blow the socks off of what is currently available.

Bryan Owens craftsmanship is proven. Quality carpet is not rare earth. The process isn't rocket science.

X-RAY---let this jell a bit longer. I will send you patterns so you can source with your contacts as you wish, but it will take a little while, as I'm not retired!

BPILATI---I appreciate all of your info. about the origins of the carpets. It has helped to make sense (?!?) of this perplexing problem. Thanks!

ARNE---Your comments continue to bolster my arguement that we are REALLY in need of something better. If there are only 5000 or so Z'z left then it is up to us 240Z owners to get this done. We are the carriers of the flame---it is up to us to get it right---the people that are currently doing these carpets just haven't.

GEEZER--Keep up the good work of waiting---it'll happen. :classic:

Stay tuned!

Jim D.

"Zup"