Loop pile carpet, any recent purchases? (2008)

[HS30-H]

Mind if I cut in?

Got into the storage unit and pulled out an old carpet from the 7/70......... The label has an original Japanese character and reads 46.10.1

Showa 46 would indicate a manufacturing or QC year of 1971, which is pretty late for a car stamped with a 7/70 'production date' door jamb tag. Don't know if that's 10th January or 1st October, but at the very least the carpet seems to be at least six months or so later than the complete car........

The first Z's imported came with rubber mats only, and Mr K had carpet kits made by Chester & Herod using the rubber mats as templates.

Now back in Japan they made the carpet kits using what they had available and wool carpets were showing up. I think Les said wool carpets are cut pile. Anyway, this is how I remember it, so don't shoot the messenger.

This certainly supports Les' statement that "...back in Japan they made the carpet kits using what they had available..." as we are seeing the direct evidence in pictures here.

Why don't you talk to Les Cannaday about the reason for different carpets. First off, the Z was not originally designed with carpets, they came with rubber mats. When the first ones arrived, Mr K had carpet made, and only later did the factory supply them.

bpilati,

I'm not going to shoot the messenger, but a warning shot across the bows might at least get your attention.......... ;-)

When you write that ".....the Z was not originally designed with carpets" you are of course repeating something that is quite untrue. Just because the first HLS30Us sent to north America showed up with rubber mats instead of carpets doesn't mean that fully-carpeted S30-series Zs didn't exist at that time. Of course they did. The truth is that the S30-series Z was a range or family of models and variants right the way through design and productionisation. The 'Z' was designed to have the option of both rubber mats and carpets - depending on model and variant, and also 'Opt' equipment - but the first HLS30Us sent to north America were subject to some wrangling between what the sales teams in north America wanted, and what the bean counters and production controllers were letting them have. There's a good parallel with the unheated rear windows in the first HLS30Us, which were quite obviously fitted to reduce cost, and/or because somebody ( or somebodies ) decided that they were not necessary - whether that be right or wrong.

That Mr Katayama ( more likely somebody a little lower in the chain of command I suspect, but still........ ) was forced to use the rubber mats as templates for carpet to be made in the USA is an indicator of the wrangling going on between the two sides at the opposite coasts of the Pacific Ocean. Interesting that such activities ( apocryphal reports of badge changing etc etc ) are often used to illustrate Katayama's 'authority' and influence, when they actually appear to be indications of the opposite.

The 'Fairlady Z-L' ( S30 model ) and 'Fairlady Z432' ( PS30 model ) both had full carpet kits at model launch, and it was the cheaper, base-level 'Fairlady Z' ( S30-S model ) and the limited production ultra-lightweight 'Fairlady Z432-R' ( PS30-SB model ) that were fitted with rubber mats. In fact, the rear deck area on those models was covered with something other than real rubber or even butyl rubber - and I don't know its technical name. It was more of an expanded foam type material, possibly related to urethane. Curious stuff.

To suggest that auto carpet almost didn't exist at that time in Japan is absurd. Nissan did of course have a fully functioning and active trim manufacturing shop during this period and earlier. If there was any unexplained variation in the type of carpet used during the early days of HLS30U production I suspect it would be an indication of supply not keeping up with demand, and most likely linked to yarn shortage at the carpet manufacturing stage ( shortages were rife in that period ) rather than simple lack of facilities and capability at Nissan. Perhaps another indication that Nissan and their suppliers had their work cut out keeping up with the ( unexpected ) demand for this particular series.....

Replacement carpet sets today? The best I've seen in person were manufactured for Japanese specialist 'Revive Jalopy' - which is of course a fat lot of use to owners of LHD cars............ Sorry!

Alan T.

[Arne]

I posted a 30 day poll on what carpet features people are most interested in. Please find it at http://classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30096

[Zup]

Mike B (proud new owner of #32) for e-mailing this link to a discussion from 2003 between Kats, 26th-Z, and others about the original jute underpadding, carpet, storage covers, etc.

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9168&highlight=rubber+mats

Many answers are right here on CZCC, I admit I haven't done enough searching. :stupid:

I googled for jute and snaps last night and came up with several promising leads.

Maybe 26th-Z will post up here and give us some additional insights. He reported that he had patterns he made for the jute underpadding----maybe he still has those and they could be made available for this project. :classic:

Jim D.

"Zup"

[Marty Rogan]

Mike B (proud new owner of #32) for e-mailing this link to a discussion from 2003 between Kats, 26th-Z, and others about the original jute underpadding, carpet, storage covers, etc.

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9168&highlight=rubber+mats

Many answers are right here on CZCC, I admit I haven't done enough searching. :stupid:

I googled for jute and snaps last night and came up with several promising leads.

Maybe 26th-Z will post up here and give us some additional insights. He reported that he had patterns he made for the jute underpadding----maybe he still has those and they could be made available for this project. :classic:

Jim D.

"Zup"

It was interesting re-reading the jute padding discussion, started back in 2003! Man how time flies! I still have not found a US supplier that is close to the original jute material. Has anyone else found it?

Marty

[hls30.com]

Not me, I've been pulling all of the good stuf I find in good shape.

Will

[AZ-240z]

Shoot, everyone always says that 240Zs should have loop pile carpet. there are obviously varying degrees of "loop-ness" to the carpet. just above -The pictures from Mike's '72 look to have pretty defined loops too. Yet some of the '71s (like mine) show some loop-effect, yet the overall effect is almost that of plush cut pile. Heck, I had thought for months after I bought the car that mine were replacements, simply because it wasn't an obvious loop pile carpet. Only recently did it become apparent that mine are still original as well. This certainly supports Les' statement that "...back in Japan they made the carpet kits using what they had available..." as we are seeing the direct evidence in pictures here.

This truly complicates my choice of replacement carpet. If I want to maintain the original style of my car as close as possible (and I do), loop carpet may not be my best choice. I may want to go with cut pile on mine to be as close as possible to what it came with. Because cut pile may look closer to my original than loop. Pictures of mine are attached.

Arne,

Ya know, I have been having the same questions. I recently found someone with a set of the series 1 carpet and he loaned me a few pieces, ie., the ones behind the seats by the black plastic tool covers, and the passenger side footwell carpet. These pieces have what Mike calls the clear backing and they appear to be exactly what my car had originally when new; really sucks to not have good recall from 37 years ago. Arne, these pieces look exactly like what Mike pictures in post #66 and what you show in post #99.

I took a real close look at these pieces, and, since there is not a lot of wear on carpet found behind the seats, I could not find a definitive loop profile to this carpet. It appears, as you have observed, to be a cut pile woven in very defined rows which may fool the eye in assuming it is loop.

It seems that all of the series 2 examples shown by Mike and others are more obviously a loop weave carpet.

I am almost ready to conclude, after many years of believing that original 240z carpet was all loop, that series 1 cars were cut pile and series 2 cars were more apt to be loop than not. This conclusion is probably erroneous but it is a place to continue the discussion.

I do not ascribe to the theory that carpet type, pattern, etc was a random

choice of " Whatever Was Available" at the time of production.

I'm with arne on this, as I want my carpet to be as totally original as evidence will allow, or it is not worth the effort to go for good, authentic reproductions. The guys that judge our cars are also reading and discussing these questions here with us, and they are learning what is real and what is not, as well. More importantly, we are collectively finding out what it should be.

I am certain that we will continue to prove or disprove other misconceptions concerning carpeting, and I look forward to more of this discussion.

Dan

[Mike B]

...I took a real close look at these pieces, and, since there is not a lot of wear on carpet found behind the seats, I could not find a definitive loop profile to this carpet. It appears, as you have observed, to be a cut pile woven in very defined rows which may fool the eye in assuming it is loop.

It seems that all of the series 2 examples shown by Mike and others are more obviously a loop weave carpet.

I am almost ready to conclude, after many years of believing that original 240z carpet was all loop, that series 1 cars were cut pile and series 2 cars were more apt to be loop than not. This conclusion is probably erroneous but it is a place to continue the discussion.

I do not ascribe to the theory that carpet type, pattern, etc was a random

choice of " Whatever Was Available" at the time of production...

Dan, I agree with you completely. Until last year I had only owned 1972 240z's and I assumed all carpet was like what they have. When I first saw the earlier carpets from 1970 and 1971 cars I thought they must not be original because they looked more like cut pile with the clear backing. However, now I think that the material and backing just changed somewhere between 3/71 and 5/72. I don't think that the cars had different carpet on the East or West coast or that they just used what they had, except perhaps the early cars.

Arne, I am picking up #32 this Saturday, and it has a custom made aftermarket carpet set on top of the original rubber mats. The rear deck is the series 2 and 3 style with a split at the front for the in-deck storage bins (obviously not correct for a series one car). The carpet looked like it was pretty faithful to the orginal pattern with notches for the rear straps, and a notch in the front mat for the brake petal stop (or whatever that is called). The mats have a name address and contact information for the maker on them, which I didn't think to write down when I looked at the car. Anyway, I'll take some pictures and pass on the contact info once I get the car back home this weekend.

-Mike

[Arne]

Arne, I am picking up #32 this Saturday, and it has a custom made aftermarket carpet set on top of the original rubber mats. The rear deck is the series 2 and 3 style with a split at the front for the in-deck storage bins (obviously not correct for a series one car). The carpet looked like it was pretty faithful to the orginal pattern with notches for the rear straps, and a notch in the front mat for the brake petal stop (or whatever that is called). The mats have a name address and contact information for the maker on them, which I didn't think to write down when I looked at the car. Anyway, I'll take some pictures and pass on the contact info once I get the car back home this weekend.

-Mike

I'll be interested in seeing the pictures, and also in finding out who made them. Are they loop or cut pile?

[Mike B]

Are they loop or cut pile?

They are loop, which should actually be more correct, since they are the series 2 and 3 style with the front split on the deck. I wasn't as interested in the carpet when I looked at the car, because I knew it wasn't correct (but I was very happy that the rubber mats were underneath!). Here are a couple of pics that show some of the detail I referred to.

-Mike

[Arne]

Remember that loop is not correct for all Series 2 cars. Mine (37705, 7/71) is pretty much cut pile, not loop.

[Mike B]

Remember that loop is not correct for all Series 2 cars. Mine (37705, 7/71) is pretty much cut pile, not loop.

Yeah, you are right. I thought about that after I posted. I am still used to the 1972 series 3 carpet with the loops and the split in the deck carpet for the storage compartments. The 3/71 set from my parts car is like yours with the pile that looks more like cut pile.

-Mike

[Mike B]

Here is the custom carpet set that came in #32 when I bought it. It is very high quality. Much better than any other reproduction set I have seen, and almost as nice as the original. Unfortunately I don't think the company is in business any more. I called the phone number shown on the tag and got another company instead. I blurred out the number on the close-ups to try to keep others from calling and bothering the other company. I also did an internet search for the company name shown and didn't come up with anything.

-Mike