Need help on Engine Rubuild please.

[WingZr0]

Yo YO YO,

I went and saw Dean Nakutsu over at Nakatsu's Garage and he's

having me bring my '77 280Z 4 speed over Feburary 9th for a

Engine Rebuild.

He said he did his own Z but that was 13 years ago.

He's not sure how long to or where to get the all parts just yet

or how much they would cost.

So seeing an oppertunity to at least save some money from

being overcharged on parts like the first guy I went to,

(anyone remember the $400 fuel pump ?),

I said,"I can get my own parts myself if thats not a problem and

it might save on time waiting for them to come in."

He replied, "yeah that'd be all right", although he can get the

items needed still just the same he said if need be.

So now I have chance a to save on parts or buy some race performance

items that would cost about the same as stock parts if I can

find them as well .

OK,

Question is what are the parts, both Primary and Secondary,

I need for a engine rebuild?

I know for a fact I'm blowning water (White Smoke) out the

Tail pipe which is not so bad now meaning blown head gasket likely.

And theres oil on my brand new NGK Spark Plugs meaning

valve stem seals are shot.

#4 FI went out, like that helps any, and RPM's are stalling now (hesisting)

which may be the back preasure in fuel rail cause of the down FI and

Head Gasket.

So needless to say Ruby's parked for safty reasons

and I'm catching the bus :dead: :hurt:

The list of parts I have so far today are...

~MSA Stage 1 Camshaft kit which should include all thats valve related.

~Pistion Rings

~HKS competition Head Gakset to raise compresion to 10:1 hopefully

~Oil Gasket (old one is leaking )

~I was told something about Main Bearings or Bearings to replace?

~MSA Radiator (going for the Aluminum one)

~All new Fuel Injectors

~Fuel Preasure Regulator and New Fuel Pump while at it

~Timing Chain Set although I'm thinking of buying

this from Kameari

http://www.classiczcars.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=2200&cat=4&date=1190532364

Secondary Parts I might need are....

~Oil Pump

~Water Pump

~Air Flow Meter (AFM)

Haven't over heated in months sinch installing new Thermostat but the

Oil Presure still reads at 2 and sometimes goes up 1/3 the

way up the guage.

Oil meter guage could be shot though

If theres anything I might have missed, need or any sugestion or tips

please let me know.

Also looking to bring my Combustion chamber readings back to

170 with the compresion check if possible.

Right now they all read around 150 and I hear thats normal for

a car this old and I think a rebulid can do this and get them

back at 170, no?

Arigato Gozaimasu

~Z~

[zbane]

First off, I am no expert so my thoughts may be entirely off base.

I would think that by replacing the piston rings and verifying that your cylinder clearance is correct, in combination with resurfacing your block and head (if needed) plus new valve guides/seals you should be able to get your compression back up to the 170 range.

Regarding your injectors and AFM:

Why not have your injectors sent out for a proper cleaning and general check up. Several members here have used Dr.Injector for this and seem to be pleased with price and performance. Injectors can go bad, but why pony up all that cash to replace something that may not be bad?

Same thought for the AFM. Check it per the FSM and see if it is working within acceptable parameters. If not, repair or replace.

One thing you might want to check would be the rubber unit that connects your AFM to the throttle body. Remove it, clean it, and check for cracks or tears. This part does wear out, and shouldn't break the bank to replace.

There have been several threads about replacing your FI connectors (Stephen wrote a detailed thread about using BMW connectors, if I'm not mistaken), and that may be the cause of #4 not working correctly.

Have you considered an aftermarket fuel rail? Bo (ktm) has a beautiful setup in his car that really cleans up the engine bay.

Attached to his rail is a fuel pressure gauge/return valve.

See post 11:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27784

These are just a few things to think about.

No need to replace things that aren't broken-might as well apply that money to other improvements.

Or at least that's my take on it.

[WingZr0]

Thanks for the INFO Zban.

I replaced the connector on #4 and still not working.

I'll check the AFM and the Rail you refering to.

at leats one injetor is now a NAPA part so I figured a matching

set would help maybe.

You are right, the money could go to other improvemnts like you say.

~Z~

[WingZr0]

Is the MSA Stage 1 Camshaft Kit useable in a stock '77 280Z without having to

worry about the changing any other componants?

Basicaly can the car be tuned to work with it as I'm assuming the cam is

not to much of a change from stock specs?

Just seeing if it's worth ordering form MSA or not for the rebuild.

~Z~

[WingZr0]

Just called MSA, rep said the STAGE 1 and STAGE 2 cam kits can be

dropped in without having to change any other

componets, (like Fuel Pump and such).

Past stage 2 other upgrades are of course needed.

Not sure if thats true or not but here are stock '77 cam specs in

comparison to those kits.

Stock~ (.289 Lift int/exh) (219 Duration)

Stage 1~ (.460 Lift int/exh) (260 Duration)

Stage 2~ (.480 Lift int/exh) (274 Duration)

~Z~

[sblake01]

You told the rep that you have a stock 77 with EFI, right? He said it could be dropped in but did he say how it would run considering that the rest of the components are stock?

[Curtis240Z]

Since you are doing a mild performance upgrade, the Kameari timing chain tensioner while very pretty is quite expensive for the small improvement in drag you will gain. Plus the tensioner is very noisy (I installed one on a customer's Z). Just my .02 cents.

[beandip]

for one thing do NOT buy any rings or bearings until the engine is pulled and disassembled. You may need to turn the crank this would cause you to buy a different size bearing . The same for the rings. The timing chain and related parts would be good to buy , might think about a turbo oil pump. Freeze plugs set is another item you can pick up. A new set of head bolts and rod and crank bolts as well. Gasket set for the whole engine. This will be a good start. When you have head serviced the shop can install a set of valve seals . You could have a bad head that caused the failure in the first place. My 2 cts. Gary

[WingZr0]

You told the rep that you have a stock 77 with EFI, right? He said it could be dropped in but did he say how it would run considering that the rest of the components are stock?

Told rep it was all stock so I didin't trust his word as fact.

I only trust guys I know who actually own Z's

how would she run with the Stage 1 Kit if everthing else is stock?

The idle will be rougher no, or is it just not a good idea for know unless

using the Mega Squirt Kit you suggested?

I figured the Kameari Kit was too pricey compared to MSA's $99 stock

kit and decided to hold off on that untill I'm at least farther down the

line in race spec to need it, way farther :rambo:.

At least the HKS mettal head gasket I assume I can use but

not sure which thickness to chose, (1.0mm or 2.0mm).

The Kameari version is like $100 more though

http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/PRC16/10-2455

And Gary,

You seem to be right on the Money

I broke my MSA book out (current Blue addition?) and made a list of

all the things I could think of again and wrote them down then

wrote the prices.

What are freeze plugs BTW?

Did not know about possibly turning the crank so the bearings will wait.

Figured to wait on the rings incase the cylinder chambers need to be

bored out which would mean bigger pistons and bigger rings as result.

Not sure if those walls are scuffed or not, like I said she's runnin rough.

As for the Bolts you mentioned the ones from ARP look good,

or shoud I wait on the rod bolts same reason as the bearings?

Was looking at the Kameari Oil Pump

http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/PRC16/17-8032

Or the High Capacity Oil Pump that flows 15%-20% more volume for

$70, would that be same or similiar as the turbo one you mentioned?

Hopefully the Head as you suggest ain't cracked or warpped.

She must of been over heating long before I got her hence the low price sale.

When I arrived for the test drive the engine was already

running (Sign #1 of warming a car up to hide something).

How ever there is no Oil in the Antifreeze far as I can tell, but......

The next main thing to go with the rebuild is the 6-2 headers,

but I'll squeez that in after I squeez in the $money for the brakes

Hopefully all this last round of fixing will make her a

Safe Reliable daily driver once more.

Thyanx again guys for all the help so far, it's nice to know my odds of

blowing up this enigine are decreasing :cheeky:

~Z~

[sblake01]

Hopefully all this last round of fixing will make her a Safe Reliable daily driver once more.

It that is what you ultimately want from this car, I'd suggest a stock rebuild. You live in California so you'll have to smog it every two years, just like my 78. In my lifetime, I've owned over 50 cars and I can tell you from experience that 'modded out' daily drivers are a pain in the a$$. (Dollar signs used for the express purpose of double entendre). Each high performance modification like headers will work better if other mods are done along with it i.e. better intake, etc. That cam will make a difference but not as much as if you also went with some porting on the head, larger injectors and throttle body, rising rate pressure regulator, etc. And once you've done all of this, what about suspension...other things? The point is it becomes less of a reliable daily driver which has a standard list of troubleshooting algorhythms, to something a bit more difficult to drive in normal traffic situations, difficult if not impossible to pass smog, etc. So what do you end up with? Something well short of a race car in that lots of off the rack production cars can still outrun it, and something well short of the stated goal in that it ceased to be a 'safe reliable daily driver' many mods ago. Not telling you what to do, it's your car but I've been there and done that and it cost me a lot of extra money that I could have more productively used elswhere. No more 'hopped up' cars for me if daily driving is going to be their main purpose. Now if were talking weekend/once in a while driven, fun cars, and not daily drivers, my advice would be quite different.

[geezer]

Well said Stephen, but that is the kind of advise that more times than not, is not taken seriously until you've done it at least once or twice. Years later when you look back at the wasted time and money that you have sunk into a daily driver for a limited amount of bragging rights and the predicaments you put yourself into, it will seem like rock solid advise. You should be able to refer to your daily driver, and use the word reliable in the same sentence. 30 years ago I wouldn't even take the time to read this. I was spending too much time piecing my cars back together and walking because my driver was up on blocks again after breaking the weakest link once again.

[DeesZ]

Sometimes it is good to remind ourselves that the Nissan designers did a fairly good job when they designed the L-series engines in the first place. Sure, there is a lot that can be done after-the-fact, but Stephen's thoughts are well worth considering.... small gains with larger expenditures. When I first got my last 240 I couldn't wait to put headers on it. After much research, they sit in waiting.... the gains are minimal unless "other" things are done in addition. And those "other" things lead to yet other things that lead to.... you get the picture. Try the stock version if you are just diving in to these cars - you may be pleasantly surprised.