2008 Int'l Convention Sep 28 - Oct 3

[TomoHawk]

I was pretty much the same as you zhead, mostly dirty stuff. But I got a zero for underhood. :surprised

Like I had enough time (15 minutes) for detailing after photographing all the cars coming in for two hours... I doubt I could do anything about knicks in the rims, and underbody dirt (after driving in the rain) anyways. And I'm not sure that some of the interior things remarked could even be cleaned...

I might get the inside clean (er) and maybe I can afford to fix up the underbody one day.

The car is no where close to what I would call finished, although it is driveable and reliable- the two most important things. Anything more is just bling.

Edited February 3, 2009 by TomoHawk

[Kozby1976]

I don't think they should've been so picky about rims and under the hood...it rained on the way to the show spot and rained earlier...all the detailing that was done on monday got washed away and there wasn't enuf time to give it a detail with a Q-tip at the show, why we couldn't set up and detail at the fairgrounds the day before made me wonder how we were going to get fair judging for this convention. When I do HIN events or World of Wheels events they at least give us the day before at the venue to detail the cars for showing...oh well still had fun and now I own a really nice 70 240z as well... looking forward to going to San Antonio for 2009...Zya all there again hopefully!!!

[hls30.com]

I don't think they should've been so picky about rims and under the hood...it rained on the way to the show spot and rained earlier...all the detailing that was done on monday got washed away and there wasn't enuf time to give it a detail with a Q-tip at the show, why we couldn't set up and detail at the fairgrounds the day before made me wonder how we were going to get fair judging for this convention. When I do HIN events or World of Wheels events they at least give us the day before at the venue to detail the cars for showing...oh well still had fun and now I own a really nice 70 240z as well... looking forward to going to San Antonio for 2009...Zya all there again hopefully!!!

I agree that having the cars in place the day before the show would allow best efforts at detailing to be made, but that requires the hosting club/ZCCA to secure(and probably insure) an area that is normally a good distance from the actual convention-and usually not completely covered or easily securable. It would be nice to have the hotel and the show in close proximity, but I am sure that would create an entirely new set of complications/added expenses. The Ohio Team did go the extra mile in securring private garages for thise who chose to use them(I don't know if they ran out of availble spaces)

As to the weather, it did the same thing and worse at Daytona. The wind the morning of the show whipped the curtians, and their chains, ultimately resulted in damage to a few cars-we didn't count that mornings damage in the exterior judging, nor did we get really picky about the underside of the cars-what could be got to with out laying on the wet ground we counted. Same thing went for Ohio. If it could be reached by stooping, it was judged. Right or wrong, the ZCCA rules don't address anything but the condition of the car, and what couldn't be judged on every car(a wet underside) we assumed to be good on every car.

Will

[Kozby1976]

the main problem is that not all the judges were on the same page...most of them were judging the cars as if we actually had 2 full days of detailing with great weather...when I originally talked to some of the Cleveland people they told me we would be setting up the day before, security would be present and they would have carnival rides and everything was set in stone 6-8 months in advance...well it was fun anyway, I won a bunch of parts and other raffle prizes...by the time I totalled up my expenses it wasn't much cheaper than Daytona...speaking of Daytona...I had alot more time detailling my Z, I even took the wheels off to really get into the whole detail thing...Cleveland didn't give us that amount of time to give people a chance to get all the road debris off of their cars and to deduct points for that against a car that was detailed and stuck into a trailer...brought to the show and after the show put back into the trailer and trailered home just isn't fair...oh well still had lots of fun and will be going to other conventions as long as I live and drive Z cars!!!!

[hls30.com]

Clipped for addressing.

the main problem is that not all the judges were on the same page...most of them were judging the cars as if we actually had 2 full days of detailing with great weather...

All of the cars are to be judged equally-the scores at one show should be the same for cars in the same condition-regardless of weather/detailing time, that is what makes the judging fair between shows. Otherwise previous entries either got an advantage, or spat on.

...when I originally talked to some of the Cleveland people they told me we would be setting up the day before, security would be present and they would have carnival rides and everything was set in stone 6-8 months in advance...

I got the same conversation, as with my bringing a car to Daytona and to Ohio, some times the best laid plans don't come to fruition through no fault of those planning-my boys were dissapointed, but still had a great time

...speaking of Daytona...I had alot more time detailling my Z, I even took the wheels off to really get into the whole detail thing...Cleveland didn't give us that amount of time to give people a chance to get all the road debris off of their cars and to deduct points for that against a car that was detailed and stuck into a trailer...brought to the show and after the show put back into the trailer and trailered home just isn't fair...

I do believe that trailering a car does grant a serious detailing advantage, but should there be a difference between the grading of a trailered car and a driven car? I have to say in the quest for a Gold Medallion, or a Gold Cup the expectation is that the car is essentially a best weather trailer loader. In all of the classes including the daily driver class, the cars that win are those that most closely approach new and unused condition-that is the nature of a car show, and certainly the aim of the ZCCA rules.

Along the same line of driven vs trailered, should there be a difference in the grading of an owner restored car and a car that had a paid for restoration? I think maybe a separate award for acknowledgement of personal work-but even that is difficult to prove-one of the first Gold Medallion cars(also the one used by the Franklin Mint for their model) was built by Bill Reagan yet a year after it was sold the new owner claimed he had re-done all of the restoration....Pride makes people do strange things-what this means is maybe there could be different classes for both driven and owner restored cars, but I believe that some of those who work the advantages, would still work the advantages-My thought is if I want my work to go up against the best out there, it needs to go up against the best out there.

Also and more to the point, to quote a friend of mine and a senior judge: "The shows are not about trophies, they are about cars."

That said,

The rules are getting a revamp this year-I have always thought it was kind of funny that the newer Zs have been graded on the same scale with the early cars given there is a huge plate/IM at the top of the late models engine compartment blocking view to most/all of the parts that get grimey on the early models! Detailing a slab at the top of the engine is just a wee bit easier than detailing a series 1 alternator...much less the entire engine and its compartment!

Will

Edited February 4, 2009 by hls30.com

[TomoHawk]

I got a 0 for the engine compartment.

It confused me at first, and then I remembered I was in the DD class, so that part is skipped, and then there's no score entered into the the computer program for judging, so it ends up as a 0. So I guess I did OK for a 200 point class.

I think the judges did do a fair job of judging, and I'd commend them forit, even though I could not be there to hear what they suggested for next time. OTOH, at any other car show, I would've gotten -5 on every category, because those "judges" are judging "show cars" instead of antique sportscars.

thxZ

[hls30.com]

Tomohawk,

What you got was 0 points deducted-a perfect score!

Only deductions are tallied on the judging sheets.

Will

[TomoHawk]

Only deductions are tallied on the judging sheets.

Really... then I got 88 points deduction on my interior?

I suppose I can now mention all the 'illegal' stuff in my car, like the digital rear-view mirror with the compass and speedo in it?

thxZ

Edited February 4, 2009 by TomoHawk

[hls30.com]

Really... then I got 88 points deduction on my interior?

I suppose I can now mention all the 'illegal' stuff in my car, like the digital rear-view mirror with the compass and speedo in it?

thxZ

Look at the individual points taken line by line, it may be that you have a total score for the area and the judge did the math, subtracting the raw score in the area from 100. In example:

a total of a 12 point deduction would give an 88.

Will

[TomoHawk]

I new that.

[JohnnyO]

When is the 2009 show?

[Mike B]

When is the 2009 show?

Sept. 28 - Oct. 2' date=' 2009

[url']http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=33269

-Mike

Edited February 4, 2009 by Mike B