Looking at buying a 240Z

[JoelH]

$5K? Wow, you drive a hard bargain! He just sent me a boatload of pics and it looks pretty good. I haven't seen many turn key cars in the $5K range but looking at the car I know it needs stock mirrors ($200), deck emblems (~$60) and I'd like to replace the seats which I'm sure would run me several hundred. Besides that he thinks the clutch master cylinder needs replaced ($40 part) and he says he would get the carbs re-synced. At least he does appear honest in his assessment of his car.

Honestly, I haven't seen many cars in the last couple of months at least that look this good for less than $8K+. I have talked to him about price and he's come off quite a bit from $12K but I don't think he would go to $5K and honestly I don't think he should.

I agree the car is far from stock but I think it could be put back in reasonably stock exterior with not a great investment and I really don't mind the performance mods under the hood.

I do appreciate the candid opinions so far and I'm just trying to sort this out and see if it's worth a trip down this week and if it looks good, what my offer should be.

[xray]

This brings up an interesting point that may be off-topic...

How does one depreciate a previously restored car? NADA suggests that an "amateur or older restoration" would be put in the "average" condition category, but if it was a topnotch 100-point resto 15 years ago, stored and maintained in an appropriate garaged environment, why would it depreciate at all if its condition was identical to when the resto was completed?

Now, if it were an OK restoration 15 years ago, and paint was dulled or some rust was showing, that'd be easy to determine. IMO, the quality of the restoration shouldn't devalue over time if the car is well-maintained...Is there any other corroborating source for gauging this kind of value? AACA or simlar organization have a standard?

To the original post...Based on the few pics supplied, the car looks in average to high retail condition. You'd have to gauge quality of restoration in person (don't rely on pics), and assess what needs going over (again.) He should have receipts. The improper engine bay color would be costly to redo if you wanted to revert to stock, but selling the triples would go part of the way to that cost (minus refurbed SUs)....I wouldn't low-ball him, but based on those pics 9k would be a well-bought car. (NADA avg=9950 hi=18,300)

[WingZr0]

Well if shes cruising 10K then sure, 9K better.

But then again it is your money Bro.

Jus don't get took on ANYTHING, it's happend to a many of us.

~Z~

[JoelH]

Ok, I'm going to try and post a bunch of the pictures of the car in question. Opinions are appreciated either in the thread or via pm. Thanks!

[Carl Beck]

....I wouldn't low-ball him, but based on those pics 9k would be a well-bought car. (NADA avg=9950 hi=18,300)

Hi Steve:

I believe you are applying the wrong value guide to the car. NADA values Classic/Collectible/Special Interest Cars. When they say "restored" or "older restoration" - they are talking about a car that was returned to it "original" condition - ie Pure Stock.

NADA Values are NOT for 95+ Point, Concours Judged examples either - Most of us would call them very high end #3 Condition Cars, to lower end #2 Condition Cars at best... Nonetheless they are valuing Pure Stock, correctly restored examples... (not Perfect Examples).

The car we're looking at is anything but Pure Stock... it's a Street Modified, week-end cruiser... I'm sure it's a neat car for what it is - but it can't be held to the values of a Restored Classic Car.

I'd agree that "IF" the car was pure stock - and presented well - even in average condition it would sell for $9K to $10K..... but almost everything is WRONG with this car considered against Pure Stock.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

Like I said - everything is OK for a Street Modified Z - but it can't be judged for "value" against a value guide for Classic Cars... Work done 16 years ago - may need a lot of rework by now.

Picture #1

Dash Cover - cracked dash ($850.00)

Wrong Seats - rebuilt, recovered OEM seats - $400.00 by the time your done at least

Wrong Carpet set - 280Z Carpet covering the correct diamond vinyl.

Wrong Steering Wheel ($150.00 restored - maybe $50.00 used)

Wrong Shift Knob... $75.00 OEM replacement in show condition

Picture #2

Wrong rear carpet - correct diamond vinyl covered or missing

Looking at the hatch hinges - was this car originally Orange?

Picture #3

Wrong Wheels...not period correct for a 240-Z, even if non-OEM hubcaps

Rear Deck emblems missing $150.00

Engine Compartment Picture

non body color - and a very sloppy paint job - no attention to details.. It would take a lot of effort to straighten this out at this point.

don't know if it still has the original engine or not...?????

painted over the plastic air intakes, shock covers,

painted over the accelerator linkage - uck

painted over the hood support - uck

painted over the brake vacuum booster - uck

missing OEM fuel filter & holder...(not unusual for triples, but not stock)

Red Block - uck

Electric Fans - missing stock fan...

Body:

Black-out or missing stainless trim on both windshield and rear window

FWIW,

Carl B.

[ajmcforester]

OK take a mangnet when you look at this car some things look to smoothe not to have a lot of bondo. some of the details are missing or not a pronounced. On the rear deck-lid and the rear lower pannel you should see the spot welds check her with the magnet also feal the back panel on the inside, and see if it has the right shape. the price and the look of the car just tells me something might be hiding. The orignal seats are not to bad to find and they make the foam and vynle so all you need is a good seat frame. I'd recomend holding off, and doing some reaserch on the Z cars I'd recomend for a daily driver getting a 280z. They are not as fast, but have fuel injection and are easer to maintain and get parts. I know they look the same, but take it from me they are not as interchangeable between 240z(s) and 280z(s). The other advantage to the 280z is that they made alot more of them and are easer to get parts. I would recomend a 240Z if it is not a daily drive and more for enjoyment, they are faster, but they take more work to keep running, prone to rust out easer, and harder to pass emmisions compaired to the 280Z. Stay clear of the 260z not a lot of good things unless you need a shell to build a race car, or have a 240z and need parts that match. Not to say the 260Zs are not nice, they just don't compair to a 240 or 280 in proformence and have the same maintence of the 240. I hope this will help, also check out at the libruary "How to Restore Your Datsun Z-Car" by Wick Humble, it might help on what to look at on the car, it is not one you need to buy, but is has good diagrams of rust locations and things to watch out for when buying a 240-280Z

[JoelH]

I actually bought the Wick Humble book. I was a little disappointed in the level of detail but I don't see me restoring a car so it's mostly for light reading.

As far as the car in question here I'm beginning to lean away from it. Carl points out a lot of things about the car that move it away from stock although with all due respect Carl, I don't think a well put together modded car automatically drops it to basement levels. Maybe you didn't mean that but that was the impression I got. I do want to thank you for your keen eye though.

The reason I'm leaning away from the car is that I want a 240Z that is for all intents and purposes stock in the interior and exterior with aftermarket wheels. Sorry the original hub caps look blah. Besides that, triple carbs, rebuilt 2.8 block, etc under the hood is just fine with me. This car just strays too much from that and although I think I can get him down quite a bit from $12K I just don't think the car satisfies my nostalgic side for the old 240Z.

[DeesZ]

There has been a lot of good advice tendered here with respect to what to look for when buying as well as what is present related to existing issues on the car you are looking at. In this instance, in my opinion, patience may be your best friend while waiting for a better specimen to show up, or the price on this one to drop better than half. I know that you are ready to go and anxious to get one, but resist the impulse and review what's been said above. I waited two years for a good one to come up at a reasonable price within a reasonable distance for me. It did. They are out there.

[Carl Beck]

.... I don't think a well put together modded car automatically drops it to basement levels. Maybe you didn't mean that but that was the impression I got. I do want to thank you for your keen eye though.

Hi JoelH:

I agree - "DONE RIGHT" a Street Mod. 240-Z will sell for good money. It's just that in my humble opinion, I see too many lazy-man, cheap arse, or very poorly thought out shortcuts taken on this one. Having driven thousands of miles, to look at hundreds of these cars - I can assure you that if the pictures look questionable, the cars are far worse when you see them in person - 99 out of a 100 times.

For $10K to $12K you should get a really nice 240-Z that needs very little farther expenditures on your part. One that exhibits the craftsmanship and attention to details that a higher quality Street Mod. 240-Z will have. When you find one - be willing to spend the money up front for higher quality - it will always be far less expensive in the medium to long run.

All these cars have a certain amount of "Price Elasticity" - I called this one $5K, based on the amount of additional money you would have to put into it, to get it to the level you said you wanted, and at which price range you were looking in. So buy it for $5K, put an additional $7K into it - and who knows, perhaps you would wind up with the car in the shape you wanted it. The "norm" is that if you plan to spend an additional $7K - you wind up having spent twice that by the time you are done. (ask anyone here;-)

The rule of thumb today is - "You can't pay too much for a really good 240-Z, and you can't pay too little for one that's not."

Check some of the cars and the asking prices in the "Classifieds" here on this sight - just as a reference.

As always - just my perspective...

Carl B.

[JoelH]

Thanks for the insight Carl and everyone else!

[BRE-240Z]

I agree with Carl's thoughtful commentary above. When someone modifies a car like this, they are applying their tastes (or lack thereof) to the car, and those tastes will not suit everyone who is a potential buyer of the car.

I would never put those ugly seats in my Z, for instance. And I would never carpet over the diamond vinyl, etc....just my opinion, and my opinion isn't worth much. But just to give you a 'fer instance', this car would not interest me as much as an unmolested car would.

It looks pretty clean, but $8K-$10K sounds about right, depending on the buyer.