Got my new Z, need some help!

[boholio]

OK, after years of searching, I found almost exactly what I was looking for! I just got a 1973 240Z with 29K (actually in kilometers at 46K) original miles. The car has quite the history and is a European car, it was custom built from the factory for a prince in the Netherlands to be a race car. I was told before I bought it, that it had a 4spd, but actually has a 5spd, just a 4spd shift knob, and that it does have a LSD rear end(verified) but wasn’t sure what gear ratio or what rear end it was. The motor is comprised of a L24 block and E31 head currently fed by triple Webbers. I received with the car a ton of extra parts, including a set of 3 Delorto carbs. I was told they are racing carbs, but I have never heard of them? Anyway, I guess what I am looking for is some knowledgeable insight to find out exactly what I have. Please don’t let me overlook anything.

Thanks!

[HS30-H]

Hi boholio,

Congratulations on your new acquisition.

I don't want to upset you while you are still on a high with your new car, but I think you need to take an industrial sized containerful of salt with that story.

First off, the factory was in Japan - right? They never built any "custom" S30 series Z cars for ANYBODY, let alone any "race" cars. They kept all that in-house, and any race cars built by the factory in Japan were kept under very close supervision and were campaigned by "Works" employed drivers, or run by semi-Works teams with drivers like Haruhito Yanagida ( of "Central 20" fame ). A very very few cars eventually found their way from the Works teams ( both in Rallying and Circuit Racing ) into the hands of privateer racers, but these cars were just being pensioned off - and were never built FOR any customers outside the Nissan team.

You will also have to bear in mind that the factory purpose-built their race-cars starting from sheet metal components; they utilised different chassis / unibody pressings to the "standard" shells, and built them up on the line as purpose-decided race cars. They did not just pick bodies off the line and modify them. This is in contrast to what happened with the cars campaigned by the likes of BRE and their rivals in the USA, who received standard PRODUCTION road cars from Japan and built them to their own specs. In short, the Factory "Works" racers were purpose-built race cars from the get-go, and NOT modified production cars.

If your car had modifications performed by the factory on the production line, then they will conform to a fairly standard spec. that the factory adhered to. The easiest of these to identify on the bodyshell is the deletion of the spare-wheel well, and the insertion of a ribbed panel in its place - this was to leave enough space for the larger fuel tanks ( initially 100 litre, and then even bigger ). If your car still has the original spare-wheel well and the normal 60 litre fuel tank, then it is unlikely to have started life as either a factory-made Rally car or a Circuit Racer.

Just from the other details that you mention, its also hard to imagine it has any "Works" history; the carburettors ( both Weber and Dell'orto ) were never used by the factory race cars. They used Mikuni carburettors ( 40, 44 and 50mm versions ) as well as the ECGI fuel injection. Both Weber and Dell'orto carburettors are not purely race carbs; most of the models that they make are dual-purpose, with only a very few described as pure "Race" models.

The LSD-equipped Diff. could also be a street item; if it was fitted with a cooler pump then it would be more likely to be a Factory race part - but LSD units have always been available for the R180, R192 and R200 Diffs. that the factory used on their S30-series Z race cars.

I won't mention anything about Dutch princes; probably best to leave that to "z-point" ( Guus himself is Dutch and tunes in quite regularly to this site ). Probably he is the best person to comment on the Royal Family of the Netherlands!.......

If you want any help to try to pin down exactly what you have, then I would be pleased to try to help. Maybe if you post some pictures ( try putting some in the Members Cars section ) of the details of the car it might help. It sounds like a good spec. anyway, and as long as you did not pay too much for the "Royal Race Car" story then you should be happy with it.

Good luck,

Alan T.

[boholio]

I figured the "factory race car" sounded a little far fetched because I've heard exactly what you told me before. I do have most of the documentation from the original purchase by the way of a Adolf Groder(not sure if he is the purchaser or company for purchaser) in the Netherlands, then who eventually sold it to a guy in IL.

The car does have the spare wheel well, but no sign of anything ever being in there. What this is sounding like is it was bought from Datsun, then sent somewhere to become what it is. I do have pictures posted in the members riders area. All body work was "said" to have come that way as well, but I have never heard nor seen that either.

The cooler pump you mention, where would that be? I havent had time to lift it and hop under it yet, but trying to crawl under there, it looks like there is a big something(oil cooler?) underneath the oil pan, maybe a little south of it, dimensions maybe 2'x1'.

I appreciate the help!

[HS30-H]

Hi Bo,

I just had a look at your photos, and I have to say that it looks like you have a standard production car that has been "tweaked" a little...........

You might have misunderstood what I was trying to say about the spare-wheel well; if it was a Factory-prepared / "Works" bodyshell then nine times out of ten you could bet that there would be no spare-wheel well AT ALL. The spare would have to sit flat on the deck, level with the surrounding floor. The big tank takes up all the space where the original tank would be, as well as the space for the spare-wheel well.

The mods on the car that I can see ( especially the radiator and its overflow tank sited on the inner wing - sorry "inner fender" ) seem to bear no characterstics of what the Competition prep. shop at Nissan's Oppama test track used to make, or of any Sport Option / Competition parts that were available through the years. The Webers are also quite recent types ( post "Emissions" versions ) and are not in period with the age of the car - so it would be even more doubtful that the factory had anything to do with them. They are probably less than fifteen years old.

I doubt if you will find any type of oil cooler or circulating pump / heat transfer system on your diff now. If it was a genuine Factory / Works type then it would have pipes both in and out of the rear cover ( although the early R180's had a spray pipe on the top of the body that aimed cool oil at the Crown-Wheel and pinion interface ). You might like to see if you have an R180 type diff. ( standard on your year of car ) or an R200 ( a later addition to the range that was much stronger ) or, and this is very unlikely, an R192 ( fitted to the Z432 and Z432-R ) which would be quite exciting. My bet is that its an R180 with a Nissan Motorsports or Sports Option list LSD unit fitted. The 5-speed transmission is probably the standard FS5C71B box ( unless you have a "Dog-Leg" first gear position - which again would be exciting, but unlikely ).

Those louvered inspection covers are not something that the factory ever did, either.

While all the above might sound quite negative considering the story you were sold, I do think that the car looks to have a really good spec. and is far superior to the "standard" HLS30 USA / North American market version spec.

The engine is probably very well built ( its a good sign that it has an E31 head ) and if it goes as well as it looks then why worry?

Intrigued by that unknown thing under the sump that you mentioned ( although it could be a special sump or something ). What about the brakes / suspension? Are they uprated too?

Alan T.

[boholio]

I understand about the wheel well, mine is definitely a stock one.

One thing about the radiator, it is held in by basically big cotter pins, looks like it would take about 3 min to get it out.

I was told the webers were added to make it street worthy and thats when the Delortos were taken off.

You know of an easy way to figure out what rear and tranny I have? This is my 3rd 240, and what ever setup is in this car is very different my others. The gearing is definitely lower. It seems like I only drop about 1K rpms within each shift 3-5.

The more and more I take time to go through it, it looks like it was a stock car, modified a little for the track. I went through the brakes yesterday, stock rear drum, but the front look different than the stock discs. The suspension isn't stock either, I can't tell what parts were used, looks like everything was painted over when the car was last painted, bastards!

Hopefully this weekend I can really take it apart and see whats there.

I really appreciate the help!

[HS30-H]

Hi Bo,

You're going to have to get the car up in the air and give it a good looking over underneath before you can identify your trans and diff. combination.

However, if you have a "normal" shift pattern ( ie, fifth gear position all the way over to the right and forward ) then I would bet that its a pretty standard "B" type box ( the FS5C71B ). Depending on which version of this they fitted when they modified the car in Holland, there will be different ratios. They might even have fitted the 32010-N3130 "Close Ratio" Option transmission, which has the same shift pattern as the standard box.

More likely is that they have fitted something like a 4.1:1 or 4.375:1 Ring and Pinion at the same time as the LSD unit. This has the effect of closing up the gear ratios, as well as making acceleration seem somewhat brisker. It also means that top speed is slightly reduced. If you have been used to the normal USA / North American spec. diff ratios and four-speed transmissions then you might now be finding out why some of us think that the other market specs. were superior!....

Those Dell'ortos might have been equipped with large chokes or something compared to the Webers, as if they had the same choke sizes and overall settings then the car would perform about the same with either set installed. The Dell'ortos are not racing carbs per se; it depends how they were set up and jetted. They will not outperform the Webers of the same size.

No idea why they thought that it would be useful to be able to take the radiator out so quickly. The factory bolted them in quite securely on their race and rally cars, as they did not expect to have to take them out. Maybe its what someone thought was "racey".

If you can post photos of the brakes and suspension ( and the diff. too if you cannot identify it ) then it will be a great help when trying to identify them.

We have a member on the site ( "z-point" ) who is Dutch and is based in Holland. He might know a little about your actual car and who used to own it over there. Why not send him a personal message and tell him what you know. It might be interesting!

Alan T.

[boholio]

Alan,

The tranny has the regular shift pattern, but I keep thinking that either 1st or 2nd is in a little different spot that normal, and every time I drive it, it makes me think it is a close ratio gear box.

I'll hopefully get time to tear into it this weekend, get it up in the air, and get some pics of all I find.

I appreciate all your help and info. and I'll definitely post pics of all I find.

Thanks again!

Bo

[pfarq]

ah ah, Bo....so YOU were the one that beat me to the Z. I was gonna stop by and check it out on my way back home when I talked to the previous owner.

BTW he told me it belonged to a prince from the carribean! He seemed like a nice guy, perhaps he got his stories confused.

So how do you like it so far?

Paul

[boholio]

Sorry about that, but I saw the pictures and just had to have it. It was actually from the Netherlands though, I have all the paper work. Anyway, I was expecting a whole lot and think it is almost everything I thought it was going to be. I thought the interior would be a little sharper, but it still isnt that bad. Not one crack or blemish on the dash! The body/paint is very clean, I have gone over and over it and found only 3 very small blemishes. Mechanically the car seems very sound. I haven't driven it a whole lot, but I put it to the test a couple times and pushed it pretty hard to see if I could find any problems. I wish with everything that has been done to it, they would have done a better job on the brakes though, I think that is my only complaint. I was happy to find out last night, that there has all ready been a H4 conversion kit for the front headlights, but was bummed when I tried to remove the head light back cover to see what bulbs they used. When the car had the undercoating sprayed on it, they didnt miss a spot underneath, and I cant get the dang screws off, think I am going to have to tap them out.

Overall, I was expecting a 8-9 and think I got a 7-8, so not too bad.