A Few More Questions on Aftermarket A/C Kits

[Oiluj]

I'm planning on ordering an aftermarket A/C kit for my 1972 240Z in about 6 weeks so I'll have it when the car comes back from the paint shop.

I've searched the previous A/C posts, gained some insight into Z air conditioning, but still have a few specific questions for you Z guru's... (especially Carl Beck).

To start, here's what I gleaned from the previous posts:

1) The fan "pulls" through the heat exchangers, is not very powerful and limits cool air delivery.

2) There is poor circulation in the interior, limiting air conditioner

effectiveness. (I'm planning to install a rear window louver that should help reduce the greenhouse effect).

3) On most of these systems, (but not all), the A/C heat exchanger hangs down low into the passenger footwell. (Ugly and encroaches on passenger foot space). I read in the posts some units hang down lower than others.

I've found several sources for A/C kits: MSA, Courtesy Auto, Nostalgic Air, Vintage Air, Hotrod Air.

Question: Based on the pics, it looks like the MSA and Courtesy Auto kits are sourced from Nostalgic Air. Is this true? If not, which of these takes-up the least real estate in the passenger footwell?

Vintage Auto's kit is not "specific" to the 240Z. The vintage air kit looks like it's a more modern unit, replacing the existing air box, air valves and heater core. The controls appear to be servo operated, not manual like the stock set-up. In searching the posts, it looks like Carl Beck installed the Vintage Air unit.

Question: It looks like this unit would be less obtrusive into the interior. Is this true?

Question: How hard is it to convert to the Vintage Air unit? What are the main issues? Controls Set-Up?

Given the cost of these A/C kits, I really appreciate any sage advice before I place an order...

[Duffman]

I am using Hot Rod Air to build my system. They can use your existing heater/vent panel controls to work their modern A/C system, which I thought was cool. So, no change in the look or function of my dash controls! Also, using modern technology will make the system much more functional than putting in one of the systems similar to the original. We follks in AZ need all the help we can get!!! Just finished putting FatMat throughout the car this last weekend, which should help even more.

[Duffman]

Also, the system unit is much smaller than the existing heater box under the dash.

[Carl Beck]

The Vintage Air - Super Cooler III - replaces the OEM heater box/core. So it sits up on the transmission tunnel where the OEM system was - and extends over the passenger footwell - but far above the Dealer Installed units of the 70's, and above the original position of the fan.

The Dealer Installed units - were added onto the existing OEM heater/fresh air vent system. As such air is sucked through the evaporator by the fan, then blown through the OEM system. With all the parts put together, you run into "leaks" where hot cabin air is sucked in, instead of all the air flowing though the evaporator... plus the added restriction to air flow by adding the evaporator ahead of the existing fan. Upgrades to the fan itself help - but they don't overcome the compromised design.

As you note - the Vintage Air unit combines the evaporator coils with the heater coils in one box, and the fan blows through it. The VA unit's fan moves about twice as much air as the Dealer Installed set up did. It will cool the car..

The downside is the unit will not use the original controls. You can disconnect them and leave them in place - then put the VA control unit in the glove box if you want to maintain the oem look. Personally, for my driver - I eliminated the oem controls - and installed a larger center vent to move more air toward the rear of the car, between the front seats..

Even so - there are still so many issues with the body design and construction - you will not get an A/C system to work nearly as well in a 240-Z, as you will find in almost any modern car. The Z is a rolling greenhouse - which leaks air at highway speeds, as the side windows bulge out. The inlet for any of these units is below the dash on the passenger side of the car - so cold air coming out the right side and center outlets, gets sucked back into the system before it can circulate though the cabin. The obstructions to air flow - the seats, the set up to the rear deck area - have to be overcome somehow... so rear cold air outlets really need to be installed....

None of the units use Fresh Air to mix in with the recirculated cabin air - they are all recirculate cabin air only. This can leave the cabin musty with stale air... So you crack a window to get some fresh air in - then the evaporator coils freeze up when the moist outside air hits it....

One could do a fully custom system - by taking a modern A/C system out of some modern small car. Then if your willing to cut into the firewall, or do whatever is necessary - you could install an A/C system with fresh air circulation, and one powerful enough to do a decent job... I'm sure it could be done .....

Second option is to install a Rear A/C unit - to circulate more air throughout the cabin. Of course you'd have to live with the looks of it...

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Derek]

Sorry to hijack this but I have a question for Carl.

I'm installing a Vintage Air unit in my Z and want to add larger more functional center vents as well. Can you tell me what you used for vents?

Thanks

Derek

[Carl Beck]

I made a replacement for the OEM center finisher (deleting the original heater/fresh air controls) out of alumiunm sheet - then used the larger center vent from Vintage Air and mounted the V.A. controls there.... At the time - it was an experimental setup... kind of ugly... but it worked fine.

For a really "custom" setup - I'd replace the entire transmisson center console - and build a new one with cold air pipeing through it - to deliver cold air to the rear deck area. There is a huge hot spot back there, that gets very little air circulation...

FWIW,

Carl B.

[bartman]

I went with a Vintage Air GEN II Mini. You can see pictures of how I did the control panel and the evaporator on my web site.

http://mysite.verizon.net/ress1lhb/barts570z/id16.html

[nahurry]

but what about the unit that courtesy nissan sells? i assume it identical to the msa unit. how does this unit compare to the vintage air and hot rod units? i will be purchasing a unit next month.

[psdenno]

but what about the unit that courtesy nissan sells? i assume it identical to the msa unit. how does this unit compare to the vintage air and hot rod units? i will be purchasing a unit next month.

I have no experience with the Vintage Air unit, but after having the MSA unit in my '71 for over a year, I can offer some insight. The price was good, the kit was complete, the installation took less than 10 hours including removing the old 35 year old York unit, it cools the Z adequately in 110 degree desert weather, consider installing an aux electric cooling fan and larger than stock radiator (I had the radiator & added the fan). A set of rear window louvers will also help with the cooling process by reducing the "greenhouse" effect.

Dennis

[nahurry]

that sounds good to me then, that's probably what i'll go with. just wish it wasn't so pricey. i've already removed my old unit.