SEM Rust Shield

[bkelly]

This is a far better option than POR-15/Eastwood Rust Encapsulator. I used RE on my rear undercarriage. It worked good, but in some spots it flaked off. This required scuffing and another application. When it dries, it's a flat finish. That means it's going to get dirty and stay dirty especially on the underside of the car. I wound up going over with rustoleum.

On another Z I'm working on, we used the SEM paint. I liked how it performed so I bought a gallon for myself. Aside from the STRONG solvent smell, it's better in every way. It's half as much as RE and less than half the cost of POR. Application is very smooth, it spreads easily and dries perfectly to a nice flat surface. The finish is glossy so it won't hold dirt/grease. Where's I'd go over POR/RE with some Rustoleum, this can be used as is.

I just painted my hatch area with this a few hours ago and it turned out great. I plan on using this over the entire interior, underside, wheel wells, and inner fenders. After doing the hatch area, the level in the can is only down ~.5in, so a little goes a long way.

This is a specialty product and would most likely have to be ordered through Car Quest/NAPA. I have a wholesale account at an auto body supply warehouse which is where I bought mine. Retail for this product should run ~$75/gal, which is still much cheaper than the other options. When you figure in S&H you save even more. It's also available in quarts for smaller jobs.

I hope this doesn't sound like a commercial, but this works that good and it's so cheap!

[geezer]

I have heard good reviews from others that have tried SEM Rust Shield also. I am curious if it holds up as well as POR 15 over time, but it did hold up to the 1000 hour salt spray test, so it must be good. The recommended prep work is much the same as for POR 15. Many have had problems with POR 15 lifting and that is a result of flawed prep work I would think , but not sure because it hasn't happened to me. What I am going to say now, some may find shocking but the only pep work I have ever done before applying POR 15 (sprayed or brushed) is a good wipe down with an acetone soaked rag and quick follow up with a dry clean cloth before it evaporates. Of course this is always on a degreased & freshly sand blasted surface. Never had any problems of any kind and after many years the POR 15 is still intact and doing its job. It will get a milky discoloration from sunlight if not covered. This is where the SEM Rust Shield is appealing. I would like more information of the claims of epoxy primers ability to readily bond to it also. It does sound like a good product and if it can be applied as I have described without the use of phosphoric acids and follow up cleaning it passes my test.

[geezer]

Just a follow up note of caution when using these products. I am in the habit of reading the material safety data sheets whenever I use a product that is new to me. It is not only a safety precaution but also beneficial to understanding a products performance and what to expect from it. Make no mistake, both POR 15 and SEM Rust Shield have dangerous elements in their makeup. POR 15 is petroleum based with isocyanates and SEM Rust Shield is an alkyd, which is a polyester resin coating which relies on toluene and xylene. This is real skull & crossbone stuff and the utmost care should be taken in the use and storage of these products. Just thought I would throw this out there so it's in the back of your mind the next time you use one of these products.

[bkelly]

Yea, it will give you a good buzz if you're not in a ventilated area. I took some pictures of what I did yesterday. I was going to powder coat my suspension, but decided against it. If you get a chip in powder coat, you can't just fix it. With paint, you can just touch it up. If you look at the back of the suspension picture, you can see how glossy it is. There is a reflection of the ports in the head in it.

edit- looks like I missed a spot on the spare tire anchor. Damn high res cameras......

[Bruce Palmer]

Just a follow up note of caution when using these products. I am in the habit of reading the material safety data sheets whenever I use a product that is new to me. It is not only a safety precaution but also beneficial to understanding a products performance and what to expect from it. Make no mistake, both POR 15 and SEM Rust Shield have dangerous elements in their makeup. POR 15 is petroleum based with isocyanates and SEM Rust Shield is an alkyd, which is a polyester resin coating which relies on toluene and xylene. This is real skull & crossbone stuff and the utmost care should be taken in the use and storage of these products. Just thought I would throw this out there so it's in the back of your mind the next time you use one of these products.

Okay, just to highlight this safety issue and fluff it up a bit, the isocyanates are kept out of the lungs with fresh air supplied breathin apparatus. Isocyanates are odorless so even though a good charcoal paint mask will catch 'em, because you can't smell 'em you can't tell that they got past a poorly sealing mask 'til it's too late. Isocyanates are why you see very few old painters.

On the other hand the alkyds, Rust Shield and Zero Rust (the one Rust Shield knocked off) both will get you by with a good organic paint mask. If the mask doesn't get sealed well to your face, the solvent smell will let you know..

I've been marketing Zero Rust into the industrial and restoration market and putting distribution in place across the US and Canada for 20 years now and am willing to answer any questions to the best of my ability with Mike's blessing, so ask away.

[helopilot]

Bruce,

Where would one obtain some Zero Rust (the one Rust Shield knocked off)?

Thanks

Phil

[Go240Zags]

Bruce,

Where would one obtain some Zero Rust (the one Rust Shield knocked off)?

Thanks

Phil

check out Bruce's signature, especially the second email address.

[Bruce Palmer]

Phil,

So as to not have this become too self serving, I'll PM you with dealer info....

[geezer]

Bruce, Could you PM me the dealer info. as well? I can’t say I have specifically went out of my way to find which paint supplier carries Zero Rust locally, if any, but I haven’t noticed it. I have been using POR 15 for many years now, because of the effectiveness of the product even if it does have it’s downsides. The need to overcoat if exposed to sunlight being one, the high cost two, short shelf life once opened and as you agree, the dangers of Isocyanates. This is why I was impressed with the results reported by those using SEM Rust Shield. A company who's products I have used. Sounds like this product all but eliminates the downsides associated with POR 15. I have been told that epoxy primers bond well to Rust Shield also. I would like to hear more about that. If Zero Rust has the same characteristics and basically the same formulation, I am just as willing to try it and will look into it. Thanks for pointing out the “knock off” status of Rust Shield and I hope you didn’t take exception with the hazard warnings in my last post. Please don't think of your posts becoming self serving. We all want to know the truth.

[Fun_in_my_z]

You might as well post it so we can all see

[Bruce Palmer]

Bruce, Could you PM me the dealer info. as well? I can’t say I have specifically went out of my way to find which paint supplier carries Zero Rust locally, if any, but I haven’t noticed it. I have been using POR 15 for many years now, because of the effectiveness of the product even if it does have it’s downsides. The need to overcoat if exposed to sunlight being one, the high cost two, short shelf life once opened and as you agree, the dangers of Isocyanates. This is why I was impressed with the results reported by those using SEM Rust Shield. A company who's products I have used. Sounds like this product all but eliminates the downsides associated with POR 15. I have been told that epoxy primers bond well to Rust Shield also. I would like to hear more about that. If Zero Rust has the same characteristics and basically the same formulation, I am just as willing to try it and will look into it. Thanks for pointing out the “knock off†status of Rust Shield and I hope you didn’t take exception with the hazard warnings in my last post. Please don't think of your posts becoming self serving. We all want to know the truth.

Recoatability: Zero Rust and Rust Shield will recoat with fewer problems because both chemical and mechanical bonding mechanism are still available. The moisture cured Urethanes, POR, Rust Bullet, et al only have mechanical available becuse the chemical bond sites are taken up in the process of catalyzation. The "moisture-cures" use the moisture in the atmosphere to cure the film. This curing process results in a product that will require tie-coats etc to facilitate adhesion........

On the epoxy primer front, To my way of thinking the use of the alyds DTM (direct to metal) precludes the need for the epoxy primers at all. My point to users is to use ZR or ?? to lock down any existing rust, let the ZR go to full cure and then build your sandable system on top of that.

Here's something for all of us to think about. If, your project has totally prepared white metal blasted steel, why wouldn't one just go with the automotive "sytem" from the steel up? These rust and corrosion control coatings have a place, but is this it? I would like to hear everyone's ideas on this. If we kick this can down the road for a bit I bet all of our projects can

benefit.

[geezer]

I am looking at this from the perspective of the hobbyist that I know who do all their own welding, sandblasting, body work, paint prep and posibly final painting. It seems our numbers are dwindling in recent years, main reason being, it is not as cost effective as it once was and I seriously believe it’s cheaper to farm the paint/metal work out. In my case I have been closed in on all sides by neighbors and this type of work is frowned upon in a residential area. Most of this work is done in stages and in most cases when you can get around to it. Some guys like me always have more than one project underway at once. Also, it’s the same for most of us, life gets in the way, and your project ends up on the back burner for one reason or another, taking much longer to complete than anticipated. This was just a little background information to clarify my particular needs when it comes to a rust inhibiting paint.

Bruce asked: "If, your project has totally prepared white metal blasted steel, why wouldn't one just go with the automotive "system" from the steel up?"

-In a perfect world where the entire car is blasted, then replacement panels welded in, and then reblasted, you would have no problems using a "complete system", start to finish. In my world, I would be faced with a totally rusted hulk by the time I got back to it. In one day I can only accomplish so much, being at the mercy of the weather, parts availability, time allotments, whatever. Also, the most important areas a product such as this is best used, would be all of the hidden areas that are never seen, but we still want to protect. There will be many bits of work done in stages where it is not feasible to crack open your two part epoxy to cover, for instance a rocker or dogleg. My epoxy doesn't get opened until I'm ready to cover a lot of surface, and not any hidden areas.

Bruces point, to use Zero Rust or the like to lock down any existing rust and building the sandable system on top, after full cure is exactly the method I use and why I am interested in the ability of my epoxy primer to bond well to the Alkyd rust inhitors because there is always a lot of overlap.

I would be interested in hearing from others, about the process they use to beat the rust monster. Thanks for the local contact information Bruce.