Help body experts-rear valence panel install

[madkaw]

I need some expert advice on installing this new MSA rear valence panel. Besides being way overpriced- IMHO- it doesn't seem to have the compound curves to lay right on the back. It is hard to get the best angle on this with the camera, but i think you'll see that the panel wants to bow out in the middle along the bottom-almost bend. The panel comes almost completely flat, so it is not rolled on the bottom or side to side. If I force the panel to to lay correctly width wise, it wants to bow out somewhere along the bottom. What part you don't see of the panel is up top,the replacement panel has a 90 degree bend to match the cars panel under the tailights. I thought i might cut the 90 off to allow the panel to bend more freely, but I am holding out as a last resort. I did notch the 90 degree lip hoping it would allow the panel to bend more freely. Maybe a reinforcement strip along the bottom edge to help hold its shape. If i force the bottom to comply the top of the panel also trys to bow out slightly.

I hope you can follow this thread because I need some help

[jlm_1951]

i have the same problem...

just bought an English Wheel to put the crown and bends in the valance to match the original contours. you can do the same thing with a shot bag and hammer and hammer and dollies, but will take a lot longer.

also going to have to thin the edges that lap the quarter panels to match the much thinner original metal guage.

joel

[madkaw]

So removing the 90 is not going to help me is it? I don't think this would have been so bad if that panel wasn't 16 guage. I had a feeling when i ordered that heavy of a panel that it was going to be trouble. I'm not worried about the overlapping ends but it would be nice to get the contour. I should call MSA and ask them why they didn't put a disclaimer in about the panel not properly contoured--ssshhheeesshhhh.

[EScanlon]

You're encountering "typical" replacement sheet metal woes. If you were to complain to MSA, you'd find that there is absolutely nothing they could do for you. This is why sheet metal replacement is more than simply slapping it on and welding.

Do NOT cut off that 90° bend. It will make it extremely difficult to weld, blend in and finish the final edge you leave behind. The 90° will allow you to hide the new seam line behind the tail-light finisher instead of out in front of it, where the seam line now becomes critical that it be flawlessly blended in.

Part of what you are missing, is a stiffening bend at the bottom. If you have a pair of sheet metal vise grips, all you need to do is to bend a small step (about 1/8" or less) at the bottom edge as a stiffener. Look at the edge of the original piece and you'll see a very thin edge bend that stiffens the whole piece.

Next, note that there is a definite curve to the panel side to side. That is the main reason why the MSA piece isn't edged for you. If it were, you'd have a MUCH harder time adjusting to your car's specific curvature.

If you have "click-its" drill and clamp the piece to the lower edge of the tail-light area, and also to the rearmost end of the side fenders. Yes, this will begin to force the curve into the piece, but now, make sure you match the tail-light surround area. Lastly, then begin to form the stiffening edge on the lower edge of the valance. Work from one side then the other side, not from one side all the way to the other. This allows you to bring the curve into shape with the crown (most forward point of the curve) being the last to be shaped.

That's my technique in a nutshell, there are variations depending on various factors but that should get you into the ball park.

HTH

Enrique

[gnosez]

I had the same issue back in '03 when we did my restoration. An English wheel is needed to get the right curve but more importantly you need to get the spacing (width) correct or the rear will be either too wide or too pinched.

Too pinched is worst as it makes putting the gas take back in a mother of a job.

If I had to do it again I'd cut one off another Z and weld it in.

[EScanlon]

As clarification for a couple of terms:

I referred to them as "click-its", they're known as "Clecos".

Here's a link from the Eastwood Co.:

http://eastwood.resultspage.com/search?p=Q&ts=custom&w=cleco

Here's a link to a Vise Grip Sheet Metal Clamp:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=5829

HTH

E

[geezer]

OK, I'll say it. you paid MSA too much money for an over priced piece of crap, that will lead to an inferior repair. Like John says it will require the use of an English Wheel to create the compound curvature of this piece. There should be no "specific curvature" for any particular car. These are mass produced vehicles and as such, have for the most part exacting dimensions, which should have been duplicated when these replacement panels were produced. Enrique is attempting to help you with a solution to the problem, but I agree with John and would look for a suitable donor from a parts car.

[madkaw]

I tried to find a a donor car because i thought I might run into this , but it was hard to find anyone who would, or knew how to cut one off. Enrique, I have clecos and clamps but that doesn't help much when trying to force a curvature that's not there. Gnose, I'm not sure what you mean about the width to wide. Damn this sucks, I talked this customer into buying this panel and i'm not sure I'm going to beable to use it. Sounds like i need to make friends with someone with an English wheel. I did e-mail MSA about their crap panels(rocker replacements made by Tabco suck too), but no response yet. Maybe i should have checked with Nissan

[gnosez]

The rear bottom valance attaches to the bottoms of both rear quarter panels. If you weld the valance on with more than what the stock dimensions called for the rear end of the body will be pinched inwards.

At the very least you need to measure another 240 to see how wide to make your restored Z.

Good luck with it.

[geezer]

Steve, Maybe by letting MSA know exactly what the problem is they will take the initiative to solve the problem with their supplier and replace the one you have. It is in their best interest to maintain customer satifaction. Especially in this case, where there is not an easy fix and you have paid top dollar for a substandard part. The problem with running it through an english wheel now, is the limited travel because of the bends that are already in place. It will certainly be time consuming and costly if you bring it to someone equipt to reshape it. Also, it would be prefered to have the car present to test fit the panel, as they progress the contour. A very unfortunate situation you have found yourself in, through no fault of your own. I hate to badmouth a company that supports our hobby, but in my opinion they have a moral responsibility here. Spell it out to them and give them a chance to rectify the problem.

[madkaw]

Yes i agree ,and I have recieved some satisfaction from MSA when in this situation. The first header I recieved from them was not a good fit and the flange was not perfected and they did replace it with a better one at no cost to me(shipping was covered).I did e-mail them:

Hello,

I am working on a 71 240z owned by Jim Derk. Jim has ordered most of his parts from your business. Recently he has ordered repair panels for his car including the rear rocker replacements and the rear valence panel. I must say I am disappointed in the quality of these parts. The Tabco rockers did not go on evenly on both sides as if the panel was stamped wrong or cut uneven. The rear valence panel should have been sold as an unfinished panel since the panel was not contoured for the car. The panel was almost completely flat while the stock panel has compound curves. I thought to myself, surely MSA knows what they are doing and maybe the panel isn’t as curvy as I think, so I have tried to install it. I am not having much luck since it wants to bow out all over the place.

I was hesitant to have Jim pay 250$ for a piece of stamped steel but his car had to have one. Since MSA has been in this business for many years you would think your R&D department would do a better job! Did anyone try and fit one of these panels on a car or did you just hold it up against the car and said—O.K. Though I thought the panel was overpriced slightly, I wouldn’t have bitched one bit if it had fit like it should have. I talked to another Z owner and he said he had the same problem and he is going to get an English Wheel to fix the panel. The panel should have hit the English Wheel before it was ever sold, especially for 250$

I will reluctant to order anything else from MSA at this point. I will try to go directly to Nissan. I imagine your prices are far off factory pricing now. The price is not the real issue any way, it’s the quality of the parts. I will be giving my customer Jim Derk a call to see how we will handle this problem.

Steve Finnerty

317-979-9929

I have yet to recieve a response of any kind. I believe my assesment was fair-don't you think. I really meant the part about the price being secondary. The time and aggravation I could save by having this panel fit is worth much more then the initial price.

[7277]

madkaw. fyi. i installed an OEM front valence panel from Nissan for my 77. even the oem piece was hard to fit!!!

last time i had an issue with MSA i spoke with Sal. though i'm not sure if he's there anymore. whomever is in his position now should take care of you. either way, MSA should do the right thing as they have for me in the past. good luck.