Ya have to ask yourself how much good that airdam does.....:stupid:

I would think that front plate would be more effective than his airdam...

Will

Here's what I ask myself.... Why... on a regular basis do some start threads with other peoples ads for vehicles they're trying to sell for the sole purpose of opening it up to another certain group that proceeds to spend days ridiculing the vehicle, the price, the person and or all the above?

I understand and agree with bringing to light certain instances involving scams or scamming individuals. However... most of the time it's just like a group of high schoolers standing around making uncalled for remarks about every girl that walks by. ???:disappoin

I guess some think it's fun.:disappoin

Jack, I agree with you.

With that being said, I'd like to pose a question.

Which is better, to have a Z:

a) sit by the side of a barn, or in a boneyard, slowly rusting away only to be crushed; OR

someone gutting same car and then putting the body together with the frame and engine from two or more vehicles to produce a vehicle such as this. Add to this that this vehicle has garnered praise at the shows it's been seen.... presumably from other Z owners.

Arne recently sent his old Yellow Z to the CRUSHER! While he pointed out that it was too seriously rusted to be worked on.... it might have been a perfect candidate for a transformation such as this. Sure it would have involved a major amount of work, but in the end it might have been a better end than as a cube of metal.

So, without knowing the provenance of the original vehicle that donated the body, I find that I can't dun the craftsman that effected this transformation.

Everyone assumes that the donor car was "pristine" and therefore a "shame" that it got modified. Yet, those same individuals that are trying to outdo each other writing a wittier and more memorable "put down", are the first ones to exclaim to a new member asking what to do with his car "It's YOUR car! Do what YOU want!".

Now THAT is the irony of this.

FWIW

E

^^^^^^^

Here's what I ask myself.... Why... on a regular basis do some start threads with other peoples ads for vehicles they're trying to sell for the sole purpose of opening it up to another certain group that proceeds to spend days ridiculing the vehicle, the price, the person and or all the above?

I understand and agree with bringing to light certain instances involving scams or scamming individuals. However... most of the time it's just like a group of high schoolers standing around making uncalled for remarks about every girl that walks by. ???:disappoin

I guess some think it's fun.:disappoin

Boys will Be Boys.....

Arne recently sent his old Yellow Z to the CRUSHER! While he pointed out that it was too seriously rusted to be worked on.... it might have been a perfect candidate for a transformation such as this. Sure it would have involved a major amount of work, but in the end it might have been a better end than as a cube of metal.

E,

Let's not forget that Arne also removed the roof from his yellow Z and used it to bring his red car back to stock, and I believe the hatch and other parts are being used by numerous other Z owners. So I would add a third option to the two you posed above ... c) part out everything usable so that other Z's can continue to live, as Nissan slowly discontinues every part that they ever made for these cars.

-Mike

Arne knows how to get to most from them, even his parts cars:

Yesterday the remains of my yellow car were hauled off. Not to be crushed, but by a guy who plans to strip it even further to maintain several other old Zs that he owns. So it still isn't a total loss yet. From the viewpoint of the guy who hauled it off, there was still some value left. But frankly, most of the good stuff was gone. As you can see from my sig below, there were a lot of beneficiaries, several of those 54 cars more than once. And I did keep a few parts as as spares, as my storage space permits. I had a good time helping others with affordable parts, thanks to all of you here who made parting my car (in some ways) a pleasant experience.

Mike;

My point was NOT about Arne utilizing a vehicle too far gone as a donor for many cars. That, in my opinion, is the BEST possible scenario for a car too far gone. I have one myself, and it too is way too far gone to be resurrected. It's best end is as Arne's ... as a donor ... unless someone were to tell me that they were planning on doing a transformation such as this. At that point, since there are few parts left (the roof, transmission tunnel, suspension) it might well be the better solution ... than to simply end up as a cube of metal.

THAT was my point. And I agree with including your third choice.

Once a car is too far gone to serve as a donor, or it is no longer feasible to continue removing parts off it, then what is wrong with using it for one of these transformations? Especially when done with the care and meticulous approach the specific car in this e-bay auction has received.

Heck, there are vehicles being crushed/sold with TONS of good parts .... simply because the owner doesn't want to take the time nor make the effort to remove them and part the car out. Those cars sometimes end up as this, and other times end up being restored to their past and again present glory.

While to many people the only possible venue for an old car is to restore it to it's original look, to others it is an outlet to assert their creative efforts. At times the results can be garish, and other times they are worthy modifications highly deserving of the high praise they garner.

But in either case, the choice is intimately, exclusively and above all... THEIR OWNER'S CHOICE!

So, if you see a vehicle that is too far gone, but you don't want it to end up transformed, or crushed, or parted out... then do the right thing and BUY IT! Then it will be up to you to decide what to do with it.

So, in agreeing with your choice, you have to consider that what you are considering is establishing a boneyard.

Well, we DID have one here in Portland (actually Gresham), it was called All-Z. It closed. Why? Because people were NOT willing to pay for the individual items, or they wanted "better" quality for less money, or they thought they could ...... Add to that, that with the rise in real estate, the land ended up being more valuable as land than the money generated from the cars.

You know what happened to the last of those cars? Many were bought by one guy. The rest? You guessed it, CRUSHED. There just weren't that many people willing to fork out the money to buy them up.

So, I'd rather see this type of well done transformation, than watch the pancaked hunk of metal that used to be a Z being carted off to the smelters.

My 2¢

E

Here's what I ask myself.... Why... on a regular basis do some start threads with other peoples ads for vehicles they're trying to sell for the sole purpose of opening it up to another certain group that proceeds to spend days ridiculing the vehicle, the price, the person and or all the above?

I understand and agree with bringing to light certain instances involving scams or scamming individuals. However... most of the time it's just like a group of high schoolers standing around making uncalled for remarks about every girl that walks by. ???:disappoin

I guess some think it's fun.:disappoin

And your making remarks at them(or this remark at you) is any different?

Before you get justifiably enraged, would you give your honest opinion of a car if asked to by a stranger? More importantly, would you want to know what a stranger thinks of what you have done with your car?

I had a conversation about ladies with the undisputed King of ClassicZcar pinstriping about the motives of young ladies that go out on public with a "T" peeking out the back of their shorts, skorts, leotards, jeans, etc. His contention was this manner of dress was done to illicit a response-my thought was a little more defined-controlling the eyeballs(or perhaps a lower pair of similarly shaped things). Building a car like this is done for exactly the same reason(though a change in detail)-to illicit a response-as is advertising-this is trolling-don't think fish("Johns") don't use this technique in evaluating bait(the "ladies" above)...

Ferrari used to Use the tag line "only those who dare truly live"-and they used it in Architectural Digest....to illicit a response. If this car was built solely to sling mud, it would look different-it was made because it could be, and because it would attract attention because it was different. Much like a blinking light has been thoroughly proven to grab and hang on to more attention that a steady lit light, it is differences hold attention. One of the things I love about The S30 and despise about the 350z is fact that the S30 doesn't look too much like any other car-but the Z33 does! a 240Z is familiar, but absolutely different.

The car in question seems to have a high degree of workmanship, and a high degree of fit and finish-not your run of the mill Junkyard wars contestant...obviously someone who knew what they were doing was in on that project-an artisan if you will. Art is ment to be a moving experience-as is the viewable "T"-, the movement may be on the part of the art moving to your living room, or the a reversed peristaltic movement-or anywhere in between...

In commenting on this type of car we are doing exactly what the builder wanted-though pointing out only the faults as we see them and not the notablely impressive details is honoring the level of artistry and command of the medium that went into the car. I can admire something with out wanting it-I hope the rest of you guys have conviced your significant others you can do the same!

Will

(just to be diferent-and I am feeling "Artsy because of the new front page !)

unfortunately, some do outrageous things just to be outrageous.

sometimes i get tired of just the knowledge of the fake "creativity".

similar to all the "reality" shows out there today, i feel like it's all a big CON. a show's 'reality' is manufactured and i laugh to myself since i, personally, see it as all manipulation. participants, editors, producers, networks.....etc.

style over substance.

maybe it's this generation, maybe it's boredom, maybe it's reverse darwinism....... eventually, maybe it's stupidity, maybe it's nostalgia, maybe it's a lack of 'true' creativity, maybe it's the manhattan i'm drinking, maybe it's the cynicism of being from jersey, maybe i'm too old.

maybe i'm right.

i've seen shows like the old "monster garage" where they take some old car and turn it into an 'aberration' when i still say to myself 'why don't they use their obvious talent to restore it to it's original beauty'.

oh, well.

rant over:nervous:

...snip.... Building a car like this is done for exactly the same reason... snip... -to illicit a response-...snip...-this is trolling-...

Will, I'll agree that this type of transformation is built in order to "shock" and "awe". Good transformations are awesome, poor transformations are pitiful. Anytime something steps out of the "norm" of "accepted" it runs the risk of "shocking" those who cannot or will not appreciate the work involved or the finished item.

But I don't think the seller was "trolling". One member posted the link to the e-Bay auction and initiated the thread with:

some would laugh while others cried

while posting this in the FUNNYBONE forum.

I don't think the trolling was being done by the car's builder or owner... the response that was ...literally... solicited was one of ridicule.

...snip...The car in question seems to have a high degree of workmanship, and a high degree of fit and finish-not your run of the mill Junkyard wars contestant...obviously someone who knew what they were doing was in on that project-an artisan if you will.

Exactly! To openly denigrate, criticize and otherwise ridicule his work is an insult .... period.

...snip...In commenting on this type of car we are doing exactly what the builder wanted-...snip...

though pointing out only the faults as we see them and not the notablely impressive details is honoring the level of artistry and command of the medium that went into the car. I can admire something with out wanting it-I hope the rest of you guys have conviced your significant others you can do the same!

Will

(emphasis mine)

The second bold statement does not agree with the rest of your post, so I can only presume that you meant the opposite.

This car may NOT be what most folks want. It may be that you are horrified by what was done. That's fine, but to entice others into a "put-down" circus.... that's simply childish, as Jack so ably pointed out.

You opened your response with:

And your making remarks at them(or this remark at you) is any different?

Before you get justifiably enraged, would you give your honest opinion of a car if asked to by a stranger? More importantly, would you want to know what a stranger thinks of what you have done with your car?

To address your first comment:

Yes, it is different. It's different in that by posting his remarks as a response to the denigrating posts, and to openly refute the manner in which the vehicle was being ridiculed is akin to an outsider stepping in to stop a group of young teens ridiculing and harassing another teen for being; a geek, a nerd, or wearing the wrong clothes, etc.

The second comment regarding honesty, what ever happened to a bit of tact? It's more acceptable to say, "I don't care for it", whereas "It's a hunk of cr*p!" elicits a negative and sometimes violent response.

But thankfully Jack DID step in before the comments escalated, as they have done in times past, and threw a pail of water on the situation.

So let's discuss this intelligently and not try to come up with the "best" put down. If you don't like it, explain but don't embellish. If you like it, explain why without gushing.

While it's not something I would do to a car of mine, I think it looks kind of cool.... somewhat like a full size Micro-Mini Z .... including the tire size relationship. I'll bet that thing just S C R E A M S .... and it can literally go OVER any old BMW or Vette.

FWIW

E