Why the Z may be the perfect car for the next 10 years

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Upon reviewing all the new CAFE standards and the extremely strict emissions people will have to meet, it seems that besides all the current wonderful things the Z offers, it has yet another feather in its cap.

Let me explain. With the feds clamping down on pure bred sports cars, they could very well cease to exist in the next 5-10 years. According to the new Cafe standards, Porsche and Ferrari must be at over 35 mpg by 2015, hardly possible. And while a company like Ferrari can just pass the fuel penalties over to the public (whats another $3000.00 anyway), companies like Porsche who mass produce cars simply cannot meet that standard and stay competitive in the US marketplace. Cars like the 911 may very well cease to be sold in America in a worse case situation. Porsche will not sell a watered down version of their cars here just to meet CAFE. The Staunch Germans would rather pull out than to compromise their principals.

Having said that, the solution to this is simple and elegant. Buy classics.

Here me out... here. With more and more cars becoming generic cookie cutouts of a prius of some sort, without souls, or any kind of character that can last more than a model year, classics offer a sublime alternative.

Classics never go down in value. Their styling is timeless. They are completely immune to all the latest Federal CAFE rules and regulations. They are free from needing expensive emissions equipment. They are easy to fix and maintain.

I say to the man who is ready to spend 50000 dollars for a newer 911. Redirect your thinking my friend. Spend 50000 dollars on a pristine restored 1970 911S. You now have a car that will go UP in value, will never look old or dated, performs amazingly and can be improved upon quite easily, and every time you drive off, you are now a connoisseur, not a rich yuppie.

I give you my fellow lovers of the Z....that classics are destined to be greatest choice to free yourselves of the shackles of CAFE and the green weenies.

[z_scout]

As I understand it, the CAFE standards as well as the European standards require that a certain percentage of cars sold must meet the targets. That percentage is not 100%. Porsche is trying to address this by making a bid to own the majority of VW. Porsche would then fall under the VW umbrella which would bypass the requirement simply because VW products will meet the mpg requirements and percentage on their own.

It is highly unlikely that Porsche and other sports cars will get diluted or cease to be sold. Mostly because they are low volume selling products compared to other product offerings. For example, I bet the Nissan Altima outsells the 350z 10-1. The Honda Accord and Civic probably sells magnitudes more than the S2000. Ferrari, Lambo, and many others will have to be creative to meet the standards, which I'm sure they will.

I hear what you are saying though. I really enjoy the way my Z drives but given the choice, I would drive a new 911 everyday and live with the depreciation. My wallet just limits me from doing so. Just my two cents.

Andre

[Danglybanger]

...in the long term, the environment, economy, political situation in this country, not to mention our pocketbooks, can't suffer from the use of fossil fuels.

And there's no reason why a hybrid or electric car can't be a performance car. Some already are. We need to be moving in that direction. I wouldn't mind a hybrid Z (isn't there a forum for that?), because the increase in mileage would be worth it to me, and consider the fact that if the gas engine is downrated in terms of horsepower, a more powerful electric engine can be added. Eventually it'd be 100% electric, fast, and no one would mind.

I suspect that the first performance hybrids (probably Japanese first, before Ferrari and Porsche catch on) will market their auxiliary electricalness as a "boost", similar to a turbo or supercharger, as the electric engine's horsepower slowly creeps up. So as long as companies actually innovate instead of become stodgy and stubborn, I don't think performance will suffer.

Hopefully, the challenge of building cars that meet the 35mpg requirement will mean cars that are lighter and better engineered in general (I have a feeling the Lotus Elise could be modified to meet the requirement and still be very fun).

Yes, the Z is a classic. I've gravitated towards cars like the Z and the Lotus Esprit, which shouldn't be as good as they are if you consider how old they are, were the first movers in terms of innovative technology and format, and weren't only good for their time but stand up well against the offerings of now.

In terms of styling, it's true that designers are limited by safety and etc., but let me just say that steel is being bent in more complex, adventurous ways now than it ever has... There'll always be a place for classics, but looking at things realistically, new cars are better than they ever have and as long as manufacturers keep up the progress, that can continue.

[soundmasterg]

The worrisome part is that there isn't really anything to stop the governments of the world from introducing legislation to make the older cars have to live up to modern car pollution standards. That would screw a lot of people who are into the classics over for sure.

Greg

[guy_geo]

Long live the classic!

[Montezuma]

The worrisome part is that there isn't really anything to stop the governments of the world from introducing legislation to make the older cars have to live up to modern car pollution standards. That would screw a lot of people who are into the classics over for sure.

Greg

Classic will always be forgiven BUT I believe they will restrict the use of classic automobiles by requiring exempt classics to be registered as such and reducing the times that they are allowed on the road. They could put mileage caps or time caps on their use. I would not be a horrible thing, not a great thing, but workable. You could take it out for club meets, shows and events but not use it as a daily driver. Classic cars are like art, I can not see a society that would require they be destroyed in the name of the environment.

[twsutt]

Classic cars are like art, I can not see a society that would require they be destroyed in the name of the environment.

Have you met today's liberal greenie? They aren't the majority, but they make the most noise and our politicians (from either party) are too poll-driven and love to bow to the noise makers.

*this may just be my opinion - I've become a bit jaded with the lack of fortitude and conservatism possessed by our public leaders*

[xray]

Upon reviewing all the new CAFE standards and the extremely strict emissions people will have to meet, it seems that besides all the current wonderful things the Z offers, it has yet another feather in its cap.

Let me explain. With the feds clamping down on pure bred sports cars, they could very well cease to exist in the next 5-10 years. According to the new Cafe standards, Porsche and Ferrari must be at over 35 mpg by 2015, hardly possible. And while a company like Ferrari can just pass the fuel penalties over to the public (whats another $3000.00 anyway), companies like Porsche who mass produce cars simply cannot meet that standard and stay competitive in the US marketplace. Cars like the 911 may very well cease to be sold in America in a worse case situation. Porsche will not sell a watered down version of their cars here just to meet CAFE. The Staunch Germans would rather pull out than to compromise their principals.

Having said that, the solution to this is simple and elegant. Buy classics.

Here me out... here. With more and more cars becoming generic cookie cutouts of a prius of some sort, without souls, or any kind of character that can last more than a model year, classics offer a sublime alternative.

Classics never go down in value. Their styling is timeless. They are completely immune to all the latest Federal CAFE rules and regulations. They are free from needing expensive emissions equipment. They are easy to fix and maintain.

I say to the man who is ready to spend 50000 dollars for a newer 911. Redirect your thinking my friend. Spend 50000 dollars on a pristine restored 1970 911S. You now have a car that will go UP in value, will never look old or dated, performs amazingly and can be improved upon quite easily, and every time you drive off, you are now a connoisseur, not a rich yuppie.

I give you my fellow lovers of the Z....that classics are destined to be greatest choice to free yourselves of the shackles of CAFE and the green weenies.

I appreciate what you're saying, and agree with general sentiments about buying classics, but there are a number of errors in your thinking

(Briefly)

Porsche, as a marque, is part of a larger, growing conglomerate that includes (among others) Audi and Volkswagen. Emissions CAFE standards are a fleet-wide average of all passenger vehicles, not simply "Your 911 must get 35mpg." So, enter the Golf TDI, the Rabbit and other fuel-sipper/hybrid/econo-diesels to raise the average fleet-wide fuel economy numbers.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080325/FREE/148127493/1023/rss01&rssfeed=rss01

(2) Most classics do go through cycles of value. There was a boom period in the early-90s that busted around the same time as the dot coms. Read up on Sports Car Market and you'll see. Or, wait the next 10 years and watch the muscle car craze fade into the distance as Boomers get too old to enjoy their Hemis. (Of course, some exceptions will persist at high value, but the market average will go down.)

(3) Maintaining valuable collector cars is not easy, and not inexpensive. In the shallower end of the pool, where Zs, 510s, TR6s and 914s hang out that may be the case. (Or maybe not as one buddy of mine just paid 5k for the overhaul of his Spitfire engine...that's like $80/hp!) But for valuable cars, expect to pay a specialized mechanic or shop to maintain your car if you want to retain the car's value. Oh, yeah...and don't drive it. Your 911s example is interesting in that parts for that car are obscenely expensive, and unless you've done a bunch of air-cooled Porsche engine overhauls, a pro will lighten your wallet in no time. With your example, I'd rather have a 1988 930 or 1992 964 than an early 911s. Same price, better performance and Most of the devaluation has already occurred

(4) This is by far not the end of the sportscar. Most 8mpg cars wil probably get sidelined, maybe some gas hogs will still be around, but expect to see plenty of supercars, sportscars, sports/GTs, droptop roadsters in the future. They may not be all gas-based, but they'll be there.

Eagerly awaiting the opening of my local Tesla dealership,

[Zedyone_kenobi]

xray, well stated, and very well written. I concede to most of what you said, but you have to understand that I assume the owner takes care of the car, and does not pay a mechanic to do it for them. When you take the mechanic out of the subject the price to maintain such cars are very tolerable.

the Porsche example was flawed, but I suppose I should have written it better to be more specific.

[1 Bravo 6]

Montezuma,

I don't know about the USA but here in the Land Down Under Classic cars can be registered as "Special Interest Vehicles". The application must be accompanied by a letter from a car club confirming the vehicle's details and a current membership card must be produced.

Registration costs are far less than for a DD but there are restrictionson their use.

To summarise,

I can only drive "Precious" 15 kms from home to give her a run, unless I'm taking her to a mechanic for work (must be booked in for the work) however, provided that I have registered, I could drive to Brisbane for a car show but I'd HAVE to be registered PRIOR to starting the trip. Using the car as a DD while under Special Interest Rego can carry heavy fines if caught. Recently, a Chevy owner was fined $4,000.

[bkelly]

What I think it totally insane about these tree hugger laws is they do not take into account THE AMOUNT DRIVEN!!! Yes a Ferrari pollutes and sucks gas like a SOB.....but try to find me a 10 yr old Ferrari with more than 50k on it. It's very rare. Considering they only sell a couple thousand a year, it's not even a blip on the radar of overall car sales. Now take the suburban soccer mom with one kid who buys a 15mpg Tahoe and drives it 20k a year. (Most of that time putting on make up and yapping on the cell phone) How is that "better" than the guy who drives a Ferrari 2k? It's what happens when you have these liberal groups influencing government regulations. You get an SUV that gets 15mpg driven 20k a year yet is "clean" and a 20mpg supercar driven 2k that is "dirty". I don't see how Porsche can be made to almost go out of business to due CAFE, yet Ford is allowed to put 1 million gas sucking F-150's on the road a year with no penalties.

The Aussie laws are somewhat a step in the right direction. It recognizes these cars as a non DD. I've always thought being clean is part of it, I'm a closet tree hugger myself. What should be regulated is OVERALL CONSUMPTION. That is the biggest issue we have right now is a supply/demand problem. We have clean cars.

[Fun_in_my_z]

xray, well stated, and very well written. I concede to most of what you said, but you have to understand that I assume the owner takes care of the car, and does not pay a mechanic to do it for them. When you take the mechanic out of the subject the price to maintain such cars are very tolerable.

the Porsche example was flawed, but I suppose I should have written it better to be more specific.

So me a Porsche owner who is going t work on the car himself.....