Why the Z may be the perfect car for the next 10 years

[Carl Beck]

Have you met today's liberal greenie? They aren't the majority, but they make the most noise and our politicians (from either party) are too poll-driven and love to bow to the noise makers.

*this may just be my opinion - I've become a bit jaded with the lack of fortitude and conservatism possessed by our public leaders*

Hi Terence:

Not just your opinion.

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

The worrisome part is that there isn't really anything to stop the governments of the world from introducing legislation to make the older cars have to live up to modern car pollution standards. That would screw a lot of people who are into the classics over for sure.

Greg

Well there is "something"... The SEMA Action Network. Every car club, every car nut should be an active part of it. As far as I know it's the only professional lobby representing "us" at the State and Federal Governmental levels today. They have been and continue to be very successful on our behalf.

http://www.semasan.com/

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

What I think it totally insane about these tree hugger laws is they do not take into account THE AMOUNT DRIVEN!!!

.....

and

......

The Aussie laws are somewhat a step in the right direction. It recognizes these cars as a non DD. I've always thought being clean is part of it, I'm a closet tree hugger myself. What should be regulated is OVERALL CONSUMPTION. That is the biggest issue we have right now is a supply/demand problem. We have clean cars.

The Amount Drive is one thing - but really not that important in the overall game of averages. It's the Passenger Miles Per Gallon that really count.

I've been driving Datsun 240-Z's since March of 1970. For many many years the 240-Z was my DD. On typical short trips to/from work, to/from the Mall etc... I was lucky to average 15 mpg in town. Pull the choke on, drive three or four miles and shut the engine down. Same thing on the return trip - and both in stop and go traffic.

Today - 38 years later - my wife's Yukon averages 14/15 mpg during the same use, only it's running on unleaded fuel, and has reduced harmful emissions by 98.6%. Where the Z carried only my wife and I on longer vacation trips and averaged about 22/23 mpg... the Yukon carries my wife, my daughter, my dog and I - and averages about 17/18 mpg.

The 240-Z and the Yukon break even in stop and go traffic. The 240-Z averaged 44/46 passenger miles per gallon. The Yukon averages 51/54 passenger miles per gallon.

"Saving The Environment" used to mean running vehicles at greatly reduced air pollution levels. We have accomplished that in spades!! Now the meaning has been redefined - to using less fossil fuels!!!

Overall Consumption has to be world wide!!

I suggest that the "using less" discussion needs to be held with China and India FIRST. Every drop of oil we Americans pay to save - fuels China and India's booming industrial economy with cheap oil. It does NOTHING to reduce total consumption. In fact quite the opposite effect.

If you believe the world should use less fossil fuels - then the more we Americans use now, the higher the price of oil will be - the higher the price, the fewer Chinese/Indians will be able to afford it, and the slower their economies will grow.

We've done our share, we've lead the world in reducing air pollution, removing lead from gasoline etc etc etc - now it's time to hold the other 95% of the worlds population to the same standards.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[xray]

Carl,

You're spot on about "people mpg" instead of mpg. I go at it every so often with my Prius-driving business partner who drives 80 miles round trip from Chapel Hill and subsequently gets on me when I defend the Expedition owner who (a) hauls heavy stuff and ( carries 5-7 people in it most of the other time...

Indian and Chinese gov'ts subsidize the cost of gas, leading to their respective economic expansions. I think (can't link a source at the moment) they are receiving heavy int'l pressure to stop subsidizing so heavily...This will make the new "middle class" not use their TaTas as much. (I mean, the CAR called the TaTa. Sheesh!)

Whether you subscribe to Peak Oil Theory or Abiotic Theory, the fact remains that much undiscovered/undrilled oil remains. ANWR, Brazilian Atlantic fields, Gulf Coast etc has profitable accessible fields even before prices hit $100/barrel....now they are even more profitable at $130. AND, at $130/barrel other fields previously too expensive to access/process/refine come into play as well.

I'll go on record saying that current price levels are a bubble. The market price curve looks just like tech stocks in the late 90s, and speculation is driving prices more than increased demand. Makes sense---investors get burned by volatile stocks, flee to real estate. That market bubbles up with easy credit and speculators and has now burst. So, with dollar falling and weak housing, people flee to gold, commodities etc...I suspect prices will settle back into the $70-90 level, and we'll be stuck with $2.50 gas for awhile. $10/barrel prices are gone...long gone...

[240znz]

We've done our share, we've lead the world in reducing air pollution, removing lead from gasoline etc etc etc - now it's time to hold the other 95% of the worlds population to the same standards.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Oh yes Carl, the US has/is such a fantastic role model for the planet. Blow your trumpet somemore mate, it's loud enough.

[Carl Beck]

Oh yes Carl, the US has/is such a fantastic role model for the planet. Blow your trumpet somemore mate, it's loud enough.

Your comment sounds like sour grapes to me... jealous perhaps?

FWIW,

Carl B.

[RayG1988]

Oh yes Carl, the US has/is such a fantastic role model for the planet. Blow your trumpet somemore mate, it's loud enough.

AMERICA! **** YEAH!

Be jealous "mate".

[NissanMaster]

240ZNZ,Your series 1 restoration looks quite nice,but your driving on the wrong side of the road on this one!

[Jackhammer]

I am with you Carl. Not only have we led the world in reducing consumption and pollution....we are also the leaders in reducing our manufacturing jobs to the benefit of China and India.:disappoin

[bkelly]

We are also the leaders in reducing our manufacturing jobs to the benefit of China and India. :disappoin

Ahhhh this gets me going. I try to buy things NOT made in China as much as possible. I bought a TV/ent. center a couple days ago. On the ent. center's box was a big USA...so I bought it. When I get home I notice that it says "Designed in USA" and in small print underneath, "Made in China." I got suckered like this on my road bicycle. A big "USA" then in small print above "Engineered in" and below "Made in Taiwan." Had I known that I would have bought a Trek, which is made here. Look out for deceptive USA labels!!

What worries me the most is not the price of gas, it's the price of oil. Gas is a large part of the problem, but oil is in literally everything we use. Dow Chemical was saying they're raising prices 20% as well as several other large chemical companies. That will have more impact on us than gas. While gas will fluctuate, companies NEVER lower their prices once they raise them.

BTW, if any of you watch the news, the last gas report- Inventories shrunk, prices when up, as DEMAND SHRUNK. That does not coincide with supply/demand...someone is fiddling with something somewhere.

[Walter Moore]

By the way, in case some are confused, the US regulation "CAFE" actually stands for Corporate Average Fuel Economy. It is the aggregate average fuel economy expressed in miles per gallon of the entire fleet produced by that manufacturer in a specific year. The current requirement is 27 mpg. (8.69 Liters per 100km for those who express fuel economy in that form.) Trucks are allowed 22 mpg I think.

I confess right here that the actual number may be 27.5 or something like that, I am working from memory.

In any event, the regulators don't care if a company sells a model that only gets 9 mpg, so long as they sell enough high mpg models to offset the guzzler. Over the years the regulation has been tinkered with to separate imports from domestic (which strangely includes Canada...) production, and each fleet must meet the standard individually. I read recently that Daimler may get slapped with a huge fine because the last year they owned Chrysler their imports, which were all Mercedes models, didn't meet the standard.

In any event the new 35 mpg standard will not impact Ferrari because their current CAFE is around 9 mpg and they just tack the fines onto the price of the car.

The last year that GM sold the GTO, which was a re-badged Holden and as such an import, part of the price was a gas guzzler tax. GM just calculated the impact that the model had on their import CAFE, and collected the fines up front from their customers. Porsche could easily do the same thing. As much as those cars cost, who would notice?

[240znz]

That's a new one on me. I've never heard anyone from New Zealand being called jealous of the USA. Sorry, I am incorrect, I am very jealous of the fact that you have heaps of great sources for zed parts.

Back to topic. Every year we New Zealanders need to register our cars. It costs about US$200. Once a car exceeds 40 years in age, it gets classified as "Vintage" and the rego cost drops to under half. That's it. Not sure about what emission standards apply to older cars but they do to modern cars. We can only hope that that new governments keep on cracking down on pollution but give the few classic cars some slack so we can keep them running.

I think that we haven't seen the end of increasing oil prices yet guys. I'm picking oil to get to US$150 a barrel and soon. I do hope I'm wrong.