Why the Z may be the perfect car for the next 10 years

[Zedyone_kenobi]

When chicken little is running around yelling "the sky is falling in" - we should learn from experience and be very very critical of that warning... and we should start looking for who is paying that chicken.

Keep driving that old Z - its greener than most people realize.

FWIW,

Carl B.

I think that pretty much sums it up. All problems faced in this country and other modern countries are the same. Problems such as medical care, unemployment, education, environment, security, are all far to complex to be handled completely in a thread on the internet. The BEST you can hope for is to read everybodies opinions, those that you agree with and those that you do not, and try to gleam some new bit of information that you can add to your own personal collective database. Some of us, me included, are too far to one side of a problem to fully understand the opinions of others. Reading those opinions and actually listening to them are means to grow as a person and I think in the end will make you feel more comfortable about whatever decision you make.

The world is a billion shades of gray. Its always changing, and evolving when we throw a splash of black or white into it.

[rdefabri]

The only current viable alternative is nuclear, but conveniently the Greenies won't discuss that.

Correct! However, today's reactors are fission, which produce radioactive by-products. The answer, is FUSION, of which the by product is minimal compared to fission (w/ fusion, you are fusing atomic nuclei, rather than splitting as in fission). The problem with fusion is the reactors are huge and can barely create energy long enough to turn even a single revolution on a motor.

Nuclear, like oil, is also another finite fuel.

Huh? Nuclear is INFINITE!!! It's the only repeatable, replenishable energy source known to man. I agree, the cost is astronomical, but it's NEEDED. To date, there are only a few fusion reactors - one in Princeton, NJ and one being built in Paris that I recall. In time, and with investment, we can shrink the size of a fusion reactor significantly enough to generate energy.

Consider computers 50 years ago, then compare to today. They are way more powerful and much smaller/cheaper. Fusion reactors would follow a similar paradigm given the proper focus and investment. All other alternative fuel sources are a sham - you will consume more energy to extract/convert than you would just using oil (there's a reason that we consume so much oil...it's the best return on "cost").

Also, consider what Carl mentioned - do not assume that the US, with 300 million people consumes more than China and India, which is 2.4 BILLION+ people combined! Our increasing dependence on foreign oil, and political jockeying which blocks us from drilling and/or opening a refinery in the last 30 years is causing much of the "scarcity economics" that is driving energy prices up for us.

Many people died for our right to consume large quantities of food and live in McMansions. I do not think it's right for us to consume in disproportion, since many live in poverty, but America does more to help others than the media would have you believe - both private citizens and public servants. Never forget those who performed the ultimate sacrifice so that we may have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

[xray]

(as an aside)....

Montana and the Dakotas are feeling pretty good right now, and the governor of MT (inlcuding residents of the local city) WANTS a refinery there...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601170&refer=home&sid=ayj1uo_gdNI4

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05292008/business/montana_governor_is_sitting_on_an_oil_mi_113005.htm

I'm interested in seeing how the Greenies will shoot this down...

[rdefabri]

Well if you consider the jobs it will bring and investment in the community, I laud the Governor.

Here in NJ, we have Nero fiddling while Rome burns. Taxes are high, and the high paying jobs are moving out. If you are in Telecom, like me, it's a wasteland...I expect I'll be working and/or moving out of State in due time!

Oh well, back to Z's. Just checked out some nice YouTube vids that had me pumped. Every time I think of selling my Z, the emotion pulls me back!

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Keep it...its an investment!

[rdefabri]

Well...I have some other toys that vie for my attention. But, I've always had a soft spot for Z's as I owned one as a kid.

The real issue is that it requires work, probably as much $$ wise as my Jaguar, and the Jag is worth significantly more.

Plan is to keep it, but time will tell!

[Jehannum]

Your comment sounds like sour grapes to me... jealous perhaps?

FWIW,

Carl B.

The US is still a significant consumer, even on a per capita level. Saying that the rest of the world needs to reduce their usage, when they don't even begin to approach the average US consumption per person is a little hypocritical.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Per capita is useless. We all must boycott Those damn Virgin Islanders!!! They are killing the environment. The US is 15th in that list behind a host of other countries.

You can only compare the US against a similarly developed nations. Comparing the US against a 3rd world country and saying we are more wasteful than they are is not a 1 to 1 comparison.

Having the US compared to Chad, or Cambodia is just ridiculous.

[Go240Zags]

I've been rereading this thread with interest. I haven't posted in awhile, but thought I'd share my thoughts. In a lot of ways nuclear is a green energy, but we have that pesky nuclear waste to deal with. In the U.S. I've always been in favor of if you have the nuclear plant or you benefit from it you keep your share of the waste. Why, because in Washington State we have been storing nuclear waste not only left over from Hanford (produced material for bombs dropped on Japan) and our few other active plants, but from across the country. We even have a bunch of long-dead radiated beagals left over from some ages-old experiment. We have huge storage tanks that literally burb radiated gas at regular intervals and have spent hundreds of millions of dollars on a "glassification" program that is supposed to make the waste safer and has yet to show any real progress.

In this region of the U.S. we had the Washington Public Power Supply System (WPPSS) or as it was more commonly known "Whoops." It was a boondoggle that wasted millions of dollars in an attempt to build several nuclear plants sold to us on the lie that this region's power needs were going to grow far faster than they actually have. Even so, the plants might have been beneficial if the builders weren't so busy cutting corners at every turn even if it meant approving faulty welds, etc. (reusing the same Xrays of good welds while allowing bad ones, etc). I just won't trust nuclear until they figure out the waste problem.

That said, we in Wash. State and our cousins just north in British Columbia, Canada produce tons of electricity thru hydroelectric power which is about as green as it gets in my opinion. Yet, the greenies still refuse to count this as a renewable energy source. In our county we have enjoyed the second or third lowest electrical rates in the nation for decades due to the mighty Columbia River and having part ownership of a dam. Despite an otherwise poor and agriculture reliant region our electrical rates were one of our best features to attract investment -- however, like the rest of the nation and thanks to Enron and the phony power crisis from Calif. the rates have tripled in the last decade.

Long story longer -- give me an all electric car that can go 70 mph and a 100 miles or so between charges and I'm with you. However, living in the largest county in area in the state (one of the biggest in the country) gas/electric hybrids in their current form just don't cut it because they rely on braking to charge and work best in more urban areas and stop and go traffic. We have long stretches of highways between towns and a high mileage car like, God-forbid, a Geo or other micro box would be better. At 6'6" tall (approx. 2 meters I guess) those cars just won't work for me. Maybe a shrink ray for the world's population would work best all around.

I've attached (I hope) photos of one reason I haven't been on the forum as much and my answer to the high gas prices. I've been getting to know my new-to-me '99 BMW R1100GS. good for highways and rural gravel roads. It's been a good 20 years since I did any serious motorcyle riding and I've been getting in as much practice as I can. Unfortunately we seem to be having much more rain than normal this May and June. Dang riding gear (just purchased, no photos yet) is way to expensive and kind of goofing looking -- but safety first and all that.

P.S. I think my dog hates the bike and would much prefer I take the pickup (tired 6 cylinder, averaging about 17 mph) because she gets left at home more now. The GS is supposed to get a high of 51 mpg, but the PO says to expect about 40+. Zero to 100 kph/62 mph in 4.3 seconds. I'm sticking to the speed limit tho. (http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/specpages/R1100GS.htm)

The R1150GS in Beandip Yellow belongs to a friend of mine.

PPS: If you stopped reading this post 10 minutes ago, I don't blame you.

[rdefabri]

Go240Zags,

I agree - nuclear today has a problem and that is waste that has an enormous "half life". That's why I mentioned FUSION. It's completely different, the waste made is minimal, and depending on process can be practically non-existent. The problem is that fusion as a viable energy source is not possible today as reactors are too large and can barely make enough energy. So while it's not theoretical, it does need maturation to get to a point of viability. If properly attended to, we could have fusion reactors in 20-30 years that would produce an infinite and safe energy source.

Of course, if everyone motorcycled, that would help! I love your solution, having owned many a motorcycle (and still my old Honda). To support your effort, I recently read that sales of scooters (Vespas and what not) are up almost 25% in the US, largely attributed to their fuel economy.

[conedodger]

I do all have-to driving on my motorcycle. It seems to get 45mpg no matter what I do. Like clockwork. I turned 21500 on the way to work this morning. The bags allow me to haul pretty much anything I need to work. One tank of fuel lasts two weeks with my commute. Pretty nice.

[Oiluj]

The Amount Drive is one thing - but really not that important in the overall game of averages. It's the Passenger Miles Per Gallon that really count.

The 240-Z and the Yukon break even in stop and go traffic. The 240-Z averaged 44/46 passenger miles per gallon. The Yukon averages 51/54 passenger miles per gallon.

I agree that if larger vehicles carry more people, the math works. But where I live, my observation is that most of the time, those big SUV's carry only the driver and, (maybe), one passenger. In that case, even our old Z's look pretty good by comparison.

When a viable alternative, public transit is the "best" green approach.

Just my 2 cents.