help with wheel spacers

[jmortensen]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a good quality slip on wheel spacer. Good quality means lug centric or alternatively a hub centric specifically designed for the car you have them on. I don't know if you remember Mat, but my original wheel spacers were cheapo ones from the auto parts store and I chased a tire vibration for a LONG time. Turned out the center hole on those was just a gnat's arse too small and the spacer was warping when the lugs were tightened. That caused the vibration and eventually caused the spacer to crack. Properly sized, they don't do that, and the replacements I got have caused no problems.

The other common mistake with spacers is not using a long enough stud. There needs to be enough engagement to secure the wheel properly. On a Z the stock studs aren't long enough for any wheel spacer really. I assume you're talking about one of your other cars though.

[Mat M]

Nope, not the Z. I have the 6 spoke mags waiting for the Z.

It's the Wife's Cruiser. Apparently the wheel setback is wrong, and the PO put spacers on. I haven't noticed ANY vibration. It's just what every tech and owner of Big-O tell me every time we get tires/service.

[Mr Camouflage]

I was under the impression that wheel spacers were generally bad, because they change the loading on the wheel bearings and stub axle, unless your using the spacers to correct the position of the centerline of the wheel on the axle, instead of adjusting the wheel for purely cosmetic reasons.

Eg. if you has a wheel that was correctly centered between the bearings on the axle, but spaced it out to be flush with the fender (purely for cosmetic looks), moving its center further to the end of the axle, you would increase the loading on the outer bearing and the forces acting on the stub axle. So potentially I guess you could snap axles.

Which is why they are illegal for road use in Australia. Or at least thats my understanding of it. Whats the story in the US?

[280chisel]

I really do appreciate the help. I think I will wait for the wheels to get here and bolt them on to determine the fit and look I want, Then I will more than likely order a wheel adaptor made for the 240 sx and take it to a machine shop and have the bore opened up. Well at least I have a plan now. Not as simple as I hoped but it should work. Thanks!

[sblake01]

I have a box of spacers (Mr. Gasket brand) on the shelf that I purchased for some vehicle I once owned but never used. This is on the box:

Legal For Sale/Use On Race Vehicles Which May Never Be Used On Highways

[John Coffey]

I use slip on wheel spacers all the time on customer cars and my cars. If they are good parts, well machined, fit correctly, and the wheel studs are long enough then there shouldn't be any issues. In 10 years I've never had hub or wheel bearing failure using spacer from .125" to .750" on dozens of S30s. On my own Rusty Old Datsun I used wheel spacers to tune handling and that car regularly saw track speeds in excess of 140 mph and cornering loads over 1.25G.

I currently run a set of 1/2" front and 1/4" rear spacers on my 350Z and have seen track speeds at Cal Speeday over 150mph in turn 2 with G loads peaking at 1.31G.

[jmortensen]

I have a box of spacers (Mr. Gasket brand) on the shelf that I purchased for some vehicle I once owned but never used. This is on the box:

Those are the hub centric ones that don't fit the Z hubs correctly. I expect the warning on the box is a liability protection issue. My box of Q-tips says don't stick them in your ear, but guess what I do with them???

The issue with the wheel bearings is a real one, but it's a common sense thing. The wider the spacer the more the effect, and the wheel offset will have a more pronounced effect than a spacer for most of our cases I think.

Like John, I used to work on a Porsche race car that saw north of 170 mph and it used slip on spacers in the back that were 1.5 or 2 inches thick. In fact we had lots of customer cars at that Porsche shop that used slip on spacers and I never saw a problem.

[sblake01]

I don't have a problem with proper spacers. I was just giving an answer to Mr Camouflage's question. My spacers, or adapters according to Bo (though their primary function is as a spacer as those wheels wouldn't fit the truck without them even though the bolt pattern is the same), were machined from alumimum billet, using an auto cad based carbide end mill with conical seats to fit over the existing lug nuts and splines for the pressed-in studs that the wheels mount to, and are hub-centric to vehicle and wheel. They might be the strongest part on the truck.

[ktm]

If you're paying $12 per stud you've got rocks in your head. Summit has the studs in sets of 5 (they're Camaro studs with 12 x 1.5 thread pitch) for $12.95.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ARP%2D100%2D7708&N=700+115&autoview=sku

I bought slip on spacers from Coleman racing, but the center pilot hole was too small. They are a lugcentric spacer so I had a machine shop open up the center hole until there was no interference. Works great, but the coleman spacers are a bit pricey.

Jon, I am not advocating paying $12 a stud, simply stating that the ARP studs are $12 each. Saying that, if you use the Camaro studs, you need to buy new lug nuts as the thread pitch is different than stock (12x1.25).

The NISMO studs from Courtesy Nissan are $70 for a box of 10, making them $7 each. I bought some 50mm studs from a local tuner shop that specializes in Nissan and Subarus. I paid $30 for a box of 8. These were all 12x1.25 and had the correct knurl diameter and length.

Stephen, I only called them "adapters" since they are identitical to the adapaters that change the lug pattern. I wanted to differentiate them from the slip on spacers Jon and I discussed (the thin disks). The spacer you have is rather thick, correct? In many instances, you may only need a 10 mm spacer for that +10 offset wheel, however, you will need longer studs.

[sblake01]

That is true. All I was trying to do was keep the same wheel centerline with a wheel that has 1 3/4" more offset. 97 Hardbody wheel vs a 64 L320 stock wheel. Those would have been one thick spacer and some incredibly long studs! But in that respect, I guess my comments were more of a hijack to this thread and for that, I apologize.

[jmortensen]

Jon, I am not advocating paying $12 a stud, simply stating that the ARP studs are $12 each. Saying that, if you use the Camaro studs, you need to buy new lug nuts as the thread pitch is different than stock (12x1.25).

Show me an ARP stud that is $12. I haven't seen it. Maybe someone is custom ordering studs in 12 x 1.25. If that's the case, that's unnecessary and expensive. The commonly used one is the one I linked to, it's the same part number as hls30.com quoted. Yes, they require new lug nuts. New nuts are a heck of a lot cheaper than NISMO studs. Trick for those using Nissan wheels, Toyota truck lug nuts have the same shank diameter and the correct thread pitch for the ARP studs.

FWIW, Quest studs are 50 or 60 mm long and have the correct pitch and knurl size. They aren't a NISMO part, so you should be able to get them for a couple bucks a piece.

Stephen, I won't speak for Coffey, but I think that you seem to be saying the only spacers that are OK to use are the ones that are "machined from alumimum billet, using an auto cad based carbide end mill with conical seats to fit over the existing lug nuts and splines for the pressed-in studs that the wheels mount to, and are hub-centric to vehicle and wheel." My point is that hub centric isn't any better, especially when you're not using wheels that are hub centric. Also a hub centric spacer that doesn't have a new "hub end taper" on it won't center a hub centric wheel hub centrically. So if you're using a hub centric spacer that is flat on the outboard end, you're centering the wheels with the lugs, regardless of what is going on on the hub side.

Lug centric is fine and slip on spacers are fine, so long as they fit the vehicle properly and the lugs are long enough to allow proper engagement of the nuts. What in my opinion is more dangerous is using a badly machined adapter like you have or a poorly manufactured slip on spacer.

[sblake01]

Well what I said in that post were two seperate things but I promise to leave this alone after this post. The first part of my answer was "I don't have a problem with proper spacers", period. The second part was about my spacers/adapters. Two different statements and nothing that said that I felt that either is any better than the other. Mine are centered to the hub on the hub end and to the wheel on the wheel end. That's how this shop builds them, if you pay for that. And they build them for and test them on race cars which my truck is not. But I won't say anything more about my spacers/adapters or how I feel about them or any others since it doesn't have anything to with the original question plus the fact that mine are on a 320 pickup and not an S30.