A 1970 Z car approaches $30 grand!

[Carl Beck]

I have a 1924 MS-60, $20.00 Saint Gaudens Gold Coin - I "can" spend it...I'm sure any merchant would accept it as legal tender - - but I choose not to.

A #1 car "can" be driven, sometimes they are driven from the trailer to the show area and back to the trailers. I have heard of people that buy and then drive #1 cars - but if they do, the car usually doesn't stay in #1 condtion for long. What the heck, if you want an "as new" Datsun 240-Z to drive and enjoy... $35K in todays money really isn't all that much. Buy a new 350Z and drive it for three years and see how much it's worth at the end... it would most likely cost you less to drive the 240-Z.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

Here are but a few number one cars to show.

Is that the Silver Z that was just sold and delivered to Texas, as discussed in another recent thread? Or is it Ken Lewis's Z?

[Poindexter]

I have a 1924 MS-60, $20.00 Saint Gaudens Gold Coin - I "can" spend it...I'm sure any merchant would accept it as legal tender - - but I choose not to.*snip*

I wish I had a 1927D SG in MS-60. Then I might be able to afford this hobby and spend the way I wanted to!

I'll give you the $20 face for yours. hehe

[lonetreesteve]

In my opinion, the #1 through #5 Condition rating system seems to be too broad. I think a lot of cars fall in between. I will use the "Refresh" example since it's probably the most common and the most affordable path for most of us. Here is what I've seen (mostly on the Internet) over the past 4+ years as a typical example of a refreshed 240Z:

*#2 quality paint job with all door jambs repainted, underside of the hood, sometimes the engine bay & floor pans if necessary and has all new weatherstripping.

*New emblems, new or #2 condition outside mirror & door handles and #2 or #3 condition chrome trim and glass.

*New tires, restored or #2 condition original "D" or "Z" wheel covers or #2 or #3 condition dealer-installed slotted mags.

*Refreshed interior with rebuilt seats & new upholstery, nice original or new headliner, #2 condition door panels, original radio, perhaps an original non-cracked dash or in a lot of cases a full dash cap.

*Chassis is clean and free of rust, but is pretty much untouched and is in #3 condition.

*Engine & transmission run strong, but were not removed for the refresh and in most cases had previously been rebuilt years before.

*Usually still has the original, matching engine, but may have a different transmission.

*Engine bay is clean, mostly original, usually has not been repainted but still is the correct original color paint color. Is without all the bright yellow Cad and Zinc-plated parts and usually doesn't have all the correct clamps, stickers, etc.

Based on the different rating systems that have been discussed, this example would probably not be good enough to be a #2 mainly because the chassis and engine bay aren't up to snuff, but it's also too nice to be a #3. IMHO, there really needs to be a better, more expanded grading system that would capture these "tweeners" and be more much more definitive. A 1-10 would probably make a lot more sense than the current 1-5 rating system.

[7277]

My problem is that I would want to drive that car too much. A #1 can not be driven at all I'm sure.

i agree...i had high 90's point 77Z in 1995..it wasn't much fun for me as i was afraid to drive it...

was that orange car in Daytona last october? if so i met the owner...nice fella.. he said that finding and restoring each and every piece of the car was his hobby, not really driving it at all. awesome job!

[Poindexter]

Wow, check out this 76 F-10 on ebay, item # 160265044935 in Portland, OR. Current pix look like a dealer brochure!

I'm totally in love with these Son of Dat wagons now! I bet she rates very highly too.

[HS30-H]

All hail Mr. K!

Sorry to digress from the thread subject, but can I ask you why?

I ask in all seriousness, and seek to understand.

No, really.

Alan T.

[Poindexter]

Sorry to digress from the thread subject, but can I ask you why?

I ask in all seriousness, and seek to understand.

No, really.

Alan T.

Say what? Two peoples separated by a common language.

Perhaps I've been up for too many hours and I'm missing something.

What's unclear about saluting the driving force behind the fantastic cars we're all here to celebrate in one way or another? Did you think I meant Kissinger, perhaps?

By all means, please digress away. I began this thread specifically to freely ruminate on many things Zed, so there should be nothing off-topic. I can do that can't I? :paranoid:

[26th-Z]

Carl,

I happen to subscribe to "Old Cars", have for years, and it has nothing to do with Kruse the auctioneers. It's KRAUSE, not Kruse. I'm lead to suspect you have nipped something off the internet without understanding it. I notice that your definitions are abridged; on you site as well as in these threads. How about if we use the unabridged definitions. Always. Wouldn't you imagine less confusion from that manner? Certainly your opinion is appreciated.

However, modified cars are most certainly part of the collector market and the guidelines are written specifically if you understand the grammar and punctuation.

#1 Excellent: A close to perfect original or a very well restored vehicle. Generally a body-off restoration, but a well done body-on restoration that has been fully detailed may qualify. The vehicle is stunning to look at and any flaws are trivial and not readily apparent. Everything works as new. All equipment is original, NOS, or excellent quality reproductions. Note: This is NOT a 100 point trailered show car. See show car description in How to Use section.

#2 Very Good: An extremely presentable vehicle showing minimal wear, or a well restored vehicle. Runs and drives smooth and tight. Needs no mechanical or cosmetic work. All areas (chassis not required, but may be) have been fully detailed. Beautiful to look at but clearly below a #1 vehicle.

#3 Good: Presentable inside and out with some signs of wear. Not detailed but very clean. Body should be straight and solid with no apparent rust and absolutely no rust-through anywhere. Shiny, attractive paint but may have evidence of minor fading or checking or other imperfections. Runs and drives well. May need some minor mechanical or cosmetic work but is fully usable and enjoyable as is.

#4 Fair: runs and drives OK but needs work throughout the vehicle. Body shows signs of wear or previous restoration work. Any rust should be minimal and not in any structural areas. Cosmetics, body, and mechanics all need work to some degree.

#5 Poor: In need of complete restoration, but is complete and not a rust bucket beyond repair. May or may not run and drive. Not roadworthy.

Parts or Salvage: Incomplete vehicle most useful for parts. Generally, take 40-50% of the #5 value.

ANd just for grins, whenever I see a discussion of the 240Z in a "collector" oriented publication, I always see this picture to describe the original 240Z. Talk about ironic!

[HS30-H]

Poindexter,

No, no - not a matter of language. Please don't misunderstand. I'm seeking to understand your obvious high regard for Mr Yutaka Katayama ( unless you actually mean Mr Kawazoe? )

What's unclear about saluting the driving force behind the fantastic cars we're all here to celebrate in one way or another? Did you think I meant Kissinger, perhaps?

The above already answers some of my questions. Thank you!

So you see Yutaka Katayama as "..... the driving force....", but can I be so bold as to ask if this is something you understood / believed implicitly, or is it because of other factors - such as TV commercials, magazine coverage etc etc?

I see a lot of what I ( personally speaking, as an Englishman ) see as something akin to hero-worship in the early Z "Community" ( whatever we think that is! ) and sometimes I honestly find it slightly baffling.

I definitely feel like the odd one out when conversing on the subject with USA-based enthusiasts, and I find the subject very interesting.

Cheers,

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

ANd just for grins, whenever I see a discussion of the 240Z in a "collector" oriented publication, I always see this picture to describe the original 240Z. Talk about ironic!

Ah yes. I can relate to that!

That - of course! - is the one that Yutaka Katayama and his pal Pinin Farina dreamed up over lunch one day. Farina drew it on the back of a napkin, and they sent the napkin over to Japan.

And hey presto. There it was. :classic:

[Poindexter]

Alan- Was he NOT significantly responsible for bringing this car to America, or demanding that it meet certain specifications that would make it more desirable to the US market? Was this car not a labor of love? Was he not a sports car aficianado, with special affection for the Jaguar and Porsche, among others?

Perhaps his position in the company was imaginary? I don't understand your point. Please be so kind as to provide your viewpoint and understanding as to the errors of my perception.

Methinks I sense a pattern here.

I think this sums up the history as we have been led to believe.

"The Datsun 240Z began its lifespan back in 1966, when a new sports-car design was created by Fumio Yashida's design team at Nissan. It caught the attention of Yutaka Katayama. "Mr. K" was responsible for Nissan's West Coast operations in the U.S. and he was convinced an affordable GT would sell big in America. Yashida's design was just the thing. Katayama insisted on a closed car, not a convertible -- "easier to get into the market" -- and a two-seater only, not a GT. When the new Datsun sports car finally appeared in the fall of 1969, there was no lack of midpriced European competition, but the sports car would offer Porsche performance and Jaguar style at a fraction of the cost. At home it was called the Fairlady Z, but in the U.S., it would be the Datsun 240Z. "

And...???? Why so cryptic?