Production Photos, Sketches. Illustrations etc.

[geezer]

I take great pleasure studying and analyzing old file photos, sketches, illustrations etc. of all the different models of the S30 in the production, testing, shipping, or just new and still in the unmolested state, when I come across them, as I know many others on this board do. For the purpose of discussion I didn’t know where to put this, thus the new thread. I would like to hear the thoughts of others, to help us better understand.

Recently 26thZ (Chris) posted some very interesting photos & sketches that warrant some careful study. Some of them seem to create more questions than answers. I am going to touch on a few of these, and would love to hear other opinions.

First up:

This sketch captured my imagination for a number of reasons. Keep in mind this is only opinion and may not stand up in court. The first thing I noticed is, this sketch was depicting an offline metal shop repair station. The body/shell is suspended by an electric powered hoist which is used to lift the body/shell out of sequence, off of the assembly line and place it into a metal repair stall. It is situated over a large safety stand. There is a control box for the hoist shown with 4 buttons on it. Up, down, forward & back. The hoist control box cable is suspended on a balancer, so you can reach up and easily pull it down to waist level to operate. A few different capacity welding gas bottles are shown. From my inspection of the wire welds on my Z, I would venture the guess that CO2 was used, and not an argon mix. It creates a harder weld with less flexibility. Can’t tell what is on the floor on the right. OK, this is what I think I know. Now, for what I am puzzled by.

In the sketch the front frame rails are not shown. Do you suppose this can be written off as artistic license, given the style of the sketch or do you think at this point in the build, when the body/shell was taken out of sequence, off the line, the front frame rails and all other pieces forward of the cowl, actually have not been added yet? I’m trying to guess where the lifting balance point would be without anything yet fastened ahead of the cowl. I have an opinion on this, but no evidence to support it.

Next up, is the controversial question of the factory roll bar mounting points that are present on all cars, even if a roll bar was not called for. Some believe these mounting points must have had another purpose, possibly being used as an assembly aid or frame-up set point. On first look at this sketch, I thought…ahh!...looks like a spreader bar mounted to this location, but I’m not convinced. Could this just be the luggage riser depicted or..?

I look forward to your best guesses even if they are more “off the wall” than mine.

I’m sorry but I don’t know who to credit for the photo.

[doradox]

The roll bar picture looks like a race car. The holes in the quarter window and the partition between the drivers compartment and rear hatch area. If it's not a roll bar you got me.

Steve

[doradox]

After looking at the welding sketch it seems odd that there is no B pillar. I looks like the shell is being lifted at about the point where a B pillar would attach to the roof. With no front end that could be near the balance point. How about the brake rotor high and to the right? It's positioning wouldn't suggest that it belongs to the car depicted. Artistic license? Interesting.

Steve

[Carl Beck]

The "B" pillar is actually the frame for the quarter window = there really isn't a "b" pillar in the sense of the word as being a pillar of strength.

Anyone that has lifted a striped body - has found out that the rear half of the shell is about three times as heavy as the front.. Suspended at that point in roof - they would have to have a brace running to the rear bumper mounting points - to hold the body level...

FWIW,

Carl B.

[geezer]

For the sake of clarity, the picture of the factory roll bar was posted just to illustrate it's mounting points. Maybe I should have found a pic of just the captured nuts minus the roll bar. Other than the quarter glass and framing there is no B-post on an S30; just an A-post and a C-post (better known as a sail panel). A brake rotor would be highly out of place. I think you are right about the balance point.

[TomoHawk]

Are these pictures and sketches available to the rest of us? I would really like to make a kind of a sunsheild for my windscreen by laminating a bunch of pictures together. So far I have a couple magazine ads.

Maybe put some of these sketches on the S30 DVD collection?

thxZ

[hls30.com]

Ron,

When I cut one of my rusty buckets up, sans the firewall, one person can load the rear of the car onto a trailer reasonably well-meaning I agree with your balance thoughts -also if you look at the flanges at the firewall, maybe the car was made in the two sections and joined together there for handling economies...that and an out of line repair stop might also explain some of the vin irregularities. What I know about this subject could fill the void in a spot weld, but it is interesting-as are the photos and sketches!

Will

[HS30-H]

Next up, is the controversial question of the factory roll bar mounting points that are present on all cars, even if a roll bar was not called for. Some believe these mounting points must have had another purpose, possibly being used as an assembly aid or frame-up set point. On first look at this sketch, I thought…ahh!...looks like a spreader bar mounted to this location, but I’m not convinced. Could this just be the luggage riser depicted or..?

I look forward to your best guesses even if they are more “off the wall” than mine.

I’m sorry but I don’t know who to credit for the photo.

Ron,

That race car interior shot is my photo ( the car is my friend's Works 240ZR replica in Japan ) and I believe I first posted it on this thread here: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7844

Actually, Yoshihiko Matsuo confirmed to me a couple of years ago that these captive nuts were specifically fitted for the Sports Option 'Safety Bar' / roll hoop mountings, and had nothing to do with the manufacturing process of the bodyshells or the handling of the cars during that process by Nissan Shatai.

I have some photos of the Nissan Shatai plant that I will have to scan and put up here. You might find them of interest. Personally speaking, I love the huge body panel presses and other machinery used in such factories.

Alan T.

[doradox]

I've never had a Z apart far enough to notice that it doesn't really have a B pillar. Ya learn something new everyday. Can you enlighten on the of calling the C pillar the Sail Panel? I've heard Sail used to describe the triangular shaped part that fits in the front door window opening where the mirrors mount on a lot of modern cars. Is it related to the shape?

Steve

[geezer]

Studying a sketch is not as good as studying a photo, but these sketches don't seem to have any "window dressing" for the sake of art but leave you wanting to see what has not been drawn.

Carl: There very well may have been more than just the 2 lifting points that are depicted. I have seen quite a few of these hoists and most have 4.

Tomo: That is a novel idea, but the original brochures/pamphlets where these originated are probably rarer than hen's teeth and Im not sure how much resolution you could get from scans.

Will: The body/shell being built in sections and then being brought together is what I'm trying to nail down. Precisely, the sequence of assembly/events. Some of it is obvious, some not so clear. Not important, but fun to do. I think that there are way too many misconceptions about VINs and if anyone wants to discuss that, it would take a seperate thread, because I will talk your ears off and possibly make you a believer.

Alan: I assumed that was one of your photos, but not sure. It is a great shot of a rare piece most of us will never see in person. Thanks for the link to the caged nut discussion. I have never read that thread in it's entirety before, and found myself nodding in agreement, while reading your explanation. Any and all photos, are sure to be appreciated by myself and everyone else. This site is the best on the planet, and the quality and volumne of the photos has much to do with that fact.

Chris: We don't hear from Dan much, but when you do, be sure to thank him on our behalf for such great photos and material, and thank you for your work enhancing them and sharing.

Steve: I have never seen "sail panel" used in any official Nissan literature or parts lists. It must be a term that just caught on? It is actually just a part of the quarter panel. I would think it relates to the shape.

PS Steve: What you took to be a brake rotor and hub assembly (kinda looks like it) is actually one of the two drive motors for the hoist. And that is better than just a guess on my part.

[26th-Z]

Sorry to jump in on this so late. For the record, the pictures I posted on the Kanji thread came from a Nissan Shatai Co; LTD. company brochure circa 1973. It is written in English and about 23 pages. This would be the kind of brochure you would get with the annual report if you owned stock in the company. "To our customers and friends abroad". There are many pictures of the company activities and I only scanned and cropped the images pertaining to the S30. There are many other sketches and the strange coloring of the graphics is part of the brochure graphic theme.

Some time ago, I read the book; "William R. Gorham: An American Engineer in Japan" and became interested in the design engineering of the unibody. At the time, I was in the unibody restoration phase of my car, Her Majesty the 26th, when she was stripped to bare metal and I could examine the various welding techniques and panel fabrication. I started collecting pictures of individual body panels I saw on eBay as well as study the various sketches prepared for the parts manuals published by Nissan. I began to see some logic with how the panels were placed to build the structural integrity of the unibody. Then Ron and I got into this e-mail conversation about building the cars in a factory.

To give you an idea of the enormity of Nissan Shatai, in 1973 their combined facilities totaled 424,307 square meters, produce 40,000 cars (Datsuns) per month, (600 buses, 500 forklifts) and employed 9,000 people. They were capitalized 4,800 million Yen. Katsuji Kawamata was Chairman of the Board. A little history...The company was formed in 1941 as Niho Kokusai Koku Kogyo Co., LTD with 36 million Yen to manufacture aircraft.

Hope everyone enjoys this conversation as much as I do.

[hls30.com]

I reread the email collection last night, and got back up to speed. This is some of the neatest verifiable part of the Z, and I have several rust buckets put away and stablized waiting for spot weld removal to release panels(and order)...but far down the road.

Will