New discovery; the story of solid/chrome Z emblem

[geezer]

Ron,

I think the really clever marketing / product identity bit is that stylised letter 'Z'....... I'm not talking about the spoken "Zee" or "Zed", or even "Zet-to" - but just what that graphic device looks like. A small stroke of genius in car branding, without wishing to overstate it.QUOTE]

I would agree with that totally, but the problem in the United States and Canada, would have been what could be seen as something more than a slight conflict with the Z28 Camaro. By the time the first S30 hit the docks in America, Z28s were already extreemly popular cars and even had slang references already in widespread use. The Z28 was refered to as both "ZEE 28" and "ZED 28". It developed into just "ZED", but curiously not just "ZEE".

Z28 was derived by the folks at GM before the 1968 model year. In 1967 when ordering the power option, the RPO code was Z27. This gave you the 302 engine that met the specs required for SCCA racing (under 305 cu.in). So, using the natural number progression in 1968 they utilized Z28 to badge this version of Camaro. Nobody, not even Mr Katayama, would attempt to compete for brand recognition with the Z28.

It was already a very popular practice to assign numbers or a combination of letters and numbers to performance cars and I think that's why "240Z" was chosen.

The stylized Z positioned on the quarter panel wouldn't have been a bad choice in my opinion but being the visual "premium piece of real estate" on the car, Mr Katayama probably wanted to claim it for his market identity.

Edited August 15, 2008 by geezer

[kats]

Thank you everyone,this thread is very hot and heavy to read for me,but very very interesting.I think we are going deep even Mr.Matsuo/Mr.Katayama can not remember these old days.Anyway,the first thing which comes up in Mr.Matsuo's mind is "No time to do that because Mr.Katayama refused Fairlady name"

I agree it is not easy to exprain by one word,there must be lots of stories running through from different angles.

I will give a call Mr.Matsuo and ask one by one.

kats

[geezer]

Kats, the statements from Mr Matsuo do answer the questions you asked at the start of this thread. I agree that everyone touched on the correct answer, but think Will came up with the best descriptive answer to explain the process and actions that had to be taken and it seems that none of this comes as a surprise to Alan or perhaps others, but does confirm suspicions.

Naturally, we are left now with more questions, but maybe not of the type that Mr. Matsuo can or would be comfortable answering. His involvement or interest in the reasoning behind Mr. Katayama's objections of using the "Fairlady" name was probably limited. I'm sure he and his team were much too busy with their own daily challenges to be concerned with this objection/decision chain of events, and a timeline would be difficult to nail down after so many years, by relying on memory alone.

You are correct in pointing out the difficulty of recalling events that took place so long ago. I can tell you from personal experience that one model year to the next and the shear volume of different models and the many variances thereof become a jumbled blur. Mr. Matsao would need time to reflect back so far, in order to provide answers to any questions. We are lucky and grateful that he has shared his knowledge and experiences and also that you have passed this information on to us. Thank you.

Alan, thanks for your patience and explanation of the early domestic market B post emblems. I did have a problem understanding how left & right side specific emblems with different mounting pin locations could be interchanged with the export market version…but now I got it.

[kats]

Thank you geezer,

I have lots of things to discuss.What am I doing first?

This is a scan from Mr.Matsuo's letter.

Mike,I also thinking about solid(not hollowed) emblem for rear deck 240Z and fender DATSUN and hood DATSUN.

I guess quater emblem and rear deck DATSUN are only one for the solid type.

Seems to me these two were not settle down untile the end of design study.

Also,I guess emblems for Fairlady cars are all hollowed type with white Z painted because they are finished well before the production.

kats

[Mike B]

Mike,I also thinking about solid(not hollowed) emblem for rear deck 240Z and fender DATSUN and hood DATSUN.

I guess quater emblem and rear deck DATSUN are only one for the solid type.

Seems to me these two were not settle down untile the end of design study.

Hi Kats, I'm not sure if I posted about this before, but last year when I bought HLS30-00210 I found that it had a solid cast hood emblem (along with solid cast 240Z quarter emblems and a solid cast rear deck Datsun emblem). The rear deck 240Z and fender Datsun emblems were hollow cast though. This is the only solid hood emblem I have seen before. HLS30-00032 came with all of its original metal emblems too, but its hood emblem was hollow cast.

-Mike

[Oiluj]

Logo, smogos.. I want one of those 240Z Targa prototypes!

[240260280]

On 2008-08-12 at 6:28 PM, HS30-H said:

Hi Mike,

A few very early production HLS30s were sent to Europe ( arriving in Belgium and Holland ) for road testing and evaluation. One of them took part in the 1970 Geneva motor show. More than one of them ( at least two, and maybe more ) became test mules for the European rally program.

When talking about early production '240Zs' it is also worth remembering the HS30s ( ie - RHD ) that we know Nissan made amongst the very first pre-production and production cars.

Cheers,

Alan T.

I wonder if this is where the "lost" chassis HLS-00009 to HLS-00012 went?

Geneva certainly had one in March however later production Z's were arriving in NA by then so it may not have been one of the "lost". For "very" early Z's to be in Europe, one would expect an arrival of Sept/Oct 1969 like in North America.

[kats]

Hi Blue , thanks for the picture and your statement is very interesting, we need to discover it .

Today I would like to show you this , A Fairlady-Z ‘s solid metal quarter emblem , an ultra early emblem .

I have got this recently, and this is Right side quarter emblem as you can see “R “ on it . Attached pictures show the difference between hollowed metal emblem and solid metal emblem. 

I found the solid emblem is a little bit thicker than hollowed emblem. And it is so heavy to compare the hollowed emblem.

I am impressed with this solid emblem is so clean and shiny, almost identical to the hollowed ones which are literally New In Box .

I asked the seller if he has a solid Left quarter emblem, but he did not .

As we already know , nearly 1000 Japanese  Zs ( L20 and S20 models  ) were produced by the end of Dec 1969 . This quantity is almost double of export S30s ( L24 model ) , but I cannot be optimistic,  it is so hard to see the early production Fairlady Zs nowadays.

Kats

Edited February 7, 2019 by kats

[kats]

Comparison back of the solid emblem family.

Kats

[kats]

Hi , this is an old thread but I really like it, today I would like to add one solid metal “Fairlady Z “ quarter emblem for left wing . It was suddenly appeared on Yahoo Japan Auction last week , I am so glad that I won . Finally I have got a set of solid metal quarter emblem for my Z432 ( 01/1970) , this set surely deserves for my Z432 . Interesting thing is , all of my solid metal emblems came to me from each different cars . A set of quarter solid metal emblems for Datsun 240Z , and that set of for Fairlady Z , there might be 4 early cars which provided them for me . When I have got the first one , it was more than 10 years ago and now , my collections are complete. 

Like Chris said , I am thinking the same for the early 240Z would have the chrome Z metal emblem up to some 1000 to 2000 cars . ( solid one would be first 500 or less or more ?? ) 
This time I will see the good example, as I have bought HLS30-02146 which has white Z metal (of course hollowed) emblems . If this is true for the car , we will be getting  much closer to the fact .

Kats

Edited January 27, 2022 by kats

[26th-Z]

Hey, congratulations, Kats!

[kats]

Thanks Chris !!

Kats