Message to the GUYS of CZCC

[Mike]

Guys, we have to stop chasing off every female member that joins our club. I seem to remember about 4-5 female members that just don't come around anymore because we're too busy making stupid remarks or sending messages that could be considered offensive.

I understand that automotive clubs are generally male dominated, but, would you really say the things in person that you say in these messages on a forum? If someone was right in front of you at a social gathering, would you really say these things?

I don't want to make this sound out of proportion because there are some female members that don't have any objections. I just wanted to count on you guys to help out the club by being good to the rare and select few ladies that do bother to buy Z's.

[mikewags]

but, would you really say the things in person that you say in these messages on a forum? If someone was right in front of you at a social gathering, would you really say these things?

Welcome to the Internet...:surprised

[Mat M]

Mikewags... You made me shake my head with disappointment with your statement. Did you stop to think about what you are sending, or was it an impulse send?

Maybe I should think longer about chastizing you in a public forum, but I find your belligerence disturbing.

[mikewags]

but I find your belligerence disturbing.

Are you kidding me?

It's common knowledge that people will say all sorts of things on the internet - the kind of things they wouldn't dare say in RL. Maybe it has to do with the lack of accountability that comes with being behind a computer screen. I am not justifying this in any way, but that's just how things are.

I'm sorry that stating the obvious has offended you.

Edited August 19, 2008 by mikewags

[240ZX]

Are you kidding me?

It's common knowledge that people will say all sorts of things on the internet - the kind of things they wouldn't dare say in RL. Maybe it has to do with the lack of accountability that comes with being behind a computer screen. I am not justifying this in any way, but that's just how things are.

I'm sorry that stating the obvious has offended you.

Regarding the sentence in your statement, "Maybe it has to do with the lack of accountability that comes with being behind a computer screen.", has something to do with it! Isn't a lack of accountability, in this case, a personal trate and something we all should have control of?

Tom

[Mat M]

Thanks, 240ZX.

My point was that the OWNER of CZC asked us to exhibit a higher standard of protocol, and then you, mikewags, respond in a flippant and arrogant manner. Show some humility.

If it is "common knowledge" that the members here are crass and base, this is the first time I have heard of it.

[EScanlon]

...snip...It's common knowledge that people will say all sorts of things on the internet - the kind of things they wouldn't dare say in RL. ...snip.... I am not justifying this in any way, but that's just how things are.

I'm sorry that stating the obvious has offended you.

Mikewags, you've missed the main point behind Mike G's post.

Whle it may be true that people do post all sorts of things on the internet, and that they are things that they wouldn't say face to face with someone, by accepting that that is the way "things are" IS a form of justification. The only way to combat that is to not allow it to happen in specific forums, as Mike is saying.

Mike's point is that he is requesting that we DO NOT do that kind of internet bullying here and that we treat female members with respect. Whether they are accosted with sexual innuendo, or being belittled for not behaving according to the established forum decorum, or being chided for not knowing how to repair their cars, it's the kind of attack that we wouldn't do to another member who is male.

Those of us who have volunteered to assist in the day to day management of the site do try to keep an eye on things but, as has been seen, sometimes it falls on deaf ears (or prints in an invisible font).

For the benefit of those who may not know, Mike G, the Yellow Jedi, is the owner of this site. He doesn't usually step up to the plate and make a post of this type. I've seen other forums literally torn apart, or plainly shut down instead of the admin making a request of this type.

All that being said, if we ALL practised a bit more tolerance and acceptance we wouldn't have incidents of the type that precipitated this thread.

FWIW

E

[sblake01]

........we're too busy making stupid remarks or sending messages that could be considered offensive

That isn't even what took place. The person that you are likely referring to tried to justify some things that she was doing here that some people found objectionable and when people voiced their opinions she took offense. Everyone is entiitled to their opinion and everone is entitled to their reaction. People were polarized, pro and con. I don't recall any of it being offensive and way too much was made of it. If she left, no one told her to, it was her choice. Mike, you said it yourlself in your other post:

I finally realized that's it's NOT possible to please everyone all of the time.

Edited August 19, 2008 by sblake01

[Oiluj]

What did I say? *confused look*

Seriously,

If I correctly understand who / what we are talking about, unless there was something happening in PM's, I don't think anything said was out-of-line. Blunt perhaps, but not out of line.

I read "most" of the posts in question, but not all. My impression is that the issues were related more to the young lady's maturity and the age difference compared to those who frequently post on this site.

To be more specific, I admit to finding the use of "texting" language on a BB to be slightly objectionable. Heck, if you read my posts, translating my "mis-types" is bad enough!

I agree with Mike and think it is good that he remind us to maintain a minimum standard of behavior in our communications, especially since they are somewhat "anonymous" by virtue of the web.

That said, I confess to possibly "Putting-Off" one of the female members when I first discovered this site. When the lady posted that she lived in my area, I suggested a casual meeting of Z owners in the area. (In a reply post, not a PM). I got the distinct impression she got the wrong idea. I re-read my posting and didn't see anything inappropriate, but then my wife occasionally tells me I'm clueless...

[mikewags]

Regarding the sentence in your statement, "Maybe it has to do with the lack of accountability that comes with being behind a computer screen.", has something to do with it! Isn't a lack of accountability, in this case, a personal trate and something we all should have control of?

Welcome to the real world where not everyone shares the same traits and values. Do you even think it necessary that Mike would have to come on here and post something along these lines? It's common knowledge not to be an arse; but you still have to tell some people once in a while.

My point was that the OWNER of CZC asked us to exhibit a higher standard of protocol, and then you, mikewags, respond in a flippant and arrogant manner. Show some humility.

I don't see what the problem is. You almost make it sound like a personal attack against you, the members of this forum, and the owner (Mike). Maybe you think you are sticking up for the website or something --- whatever it is, you're the one being offensive.

If it is "common knowledge" that the members here are crass and base, this is the first time I have heard of it.

You've obviously taken what I've said out of context.

That being said...

I haven't been on the forums for a very long time, but I have always kept it clean and consistent with the theme of CZCC. I'm sorry if I've offended Mike or any of you members for that matter. I think what I said was pretty harmless and needs to be seen for what it is; instead of nit-picked apart and blown out of proportion. I think that is what has happened here.

Edited August 19, 2008 by mikewags

[MEZZZ]

Welcome to the Internet...:surprised

I personally did not find this comment objectionable, flippant or arrogant. Just kind of said "tongue in cheek" and it is a matter of fact regarding the Internet.

If we are speaking of the Sexiest Girl on this site (hopefully I can use that), I too did not really see anything objectionable posted. Possibly in a P.M. but nothing that was out of line. The post regarding use of "txt'g lingo" was about as bad as I saw.

I kept in mind the girl was only 16 first and foremost. I did get a "friend request" from her and accepted but would have done that with any user on here.

I hate to post this comment, but will anyway. Is it possible that she may have brought some of the unwanted comments by her own posts? I hate to sound like a sexist pig but a few of her remarks left me wondering if she welcomed that type of thing.

Far be it from me to claim a holier than thou attitude, I like women as much as the next guy but this board isnt the place to engage in that type of activity. Go to a chat room

I think that she should be more than welcomed here, afterall, she has an appreciation of the Z as we all do. I hope no one takes this the wrong way, just my 2 cents, I dont want/need to trun this into some type of a "flame" posting.

[sblake01]

This is basically what happened in the thread in question. Difference of opinion. Everyone has the right to 'agree to disagree'. Sometimes I think the collective 'skin' could be a little thicker, however.