09-09-2008 11:08 PM

Today we’re going to take a rare detour from news on nostalgics to comment on some things we’d like to see happen with Japanese cars.

First up, a 1978 VW Golf has appeared on eBay with the selling price of $30,000. What makes this Vee-Dub so special? It’s an unrestored one-owner example with only 8600 miles on the odometer! This guy is so confident that he will even arrange for shipping anywhere from its current location in Berlin, Germany.

There is no doubt that the Mk1 in an icon, but it didn’t start out that way and that’s what makes it so great. Like many Japanese cars, it was designed purely for cheap, practical transportation but became so much more. This reminds us of the 8500-mile Toyota Corona that sold for $16,740 last year, but does the Corona have the international appeal of the Golf? Maybe a nice E20 Corolla would be a more likely candidate. Perhaps our non-US JNCers can chime in. Anyway, it’ll be an interesting one to watch.

The next item is the news that Citroën will be unveiling the C3 Pluriel Charleston at the upcoming Paris Motor Show. This two-tone paint job is meant to conjure up images of the Citroën 2CV, another piece of utilitarian transport that wasn’t particularly fast or sexy, but somehow managed to capture the hearts of people all over the world.

Here’s the original 2CV. Coincidentally, these are also the colors of the Japanese royal family. We love seeing homages like this, little nods from the automakers that say to us torchbearers, “We know you’re there, we thank you for your support, and we appreciate it.” What we’re trying to say is, Toyota/Nissan/Mazda/etc… show us some sugar!

[eBay via CarDomain; Jalopnik, Image: 2CVimports]

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Hi Mike:

Interesting.. What you refer to as the VW Golf was called the VW Rabbit here in the US. Introduced here in 74/75 as I recall. It sold like hot cakes at $2,395.00. It was fast relative to the then current Datsun's and Toyota's. Lots of room for American size people. The VW Dealers seemed quite happy with it as the replacement for the Beetle...

By 1978 the Rabbit was getting harder to sell however. By that time the quality problems with the earlier cars started to show up - and the VW people were very unhappy to say the least!! They all expected "Beetle" levels of quality/reliability and the Rabbit did not deliver...

The "Dasher" was a bit larger model, with slightly better body fit/finish and it was a great car to drive. It too however suffered from poor quality - compared to the reputation the Beetle had established...

If the Dasher had been built to the same quality standards as the typical Toyota at anything near the price it would have been a smash hit for years. By the mid-80's VW Dealers were closing, and being replaced by Madza Dealers...

Just my personal opinion - I can easily see an 8K mile 78 Z selling for $30K+ - - but a 78 Rabbit with 1 mile is still a POS... and I can't imagine why anyone would want one today. I sold mine the fifth time I had to have it towed in....

FWIW,

Carl B.

Hi Mike:

Interesting.. What you refer to as the VW Golf was called the VW Rabbit here in the US.

Carl,

First of all, Mike didn't write the article - so he is not 'referring' to anything. The article is syndicated from the Japanese Nostalgic Car blog, and this is the Japanese Nostalgic Car sub-forum of the classiczcars.com site.

Secondly, the car on sale in the linked ebay ad is a VW Golf. It is in Germany, and is a German domestic market model. It is not a 'Rabbit', and would have been a different spec to US market versions - especially the Californian market versions. Any comments you make on the reliability or quality of the US market versions are not necessarily going to be relevant to this car, are they?

In Europe, and indeed in many other parts of the world, the VW Golf is seen as an iconic, milestone car. I myself have very fond memories of first and second-generation Golf ownership, and so have many of my friends. I don't see why the car in this ebay auction should not sell for the equivalent of the $US price being asked if the seller finds the right buyer at the right time. The relatively low international exchange value of the $US at present does not reflect the equivalent 'value' of the car in Euros. I should imagine the seller is offering the car at a $US price in order to maximise sales potential, but it could easily sell elsewhere.

Just my personal opinion - I can easily see an 8K mile 78 Z selling for $30K+ - - but a 78 Rabbit with 1 mile is still a POS... and I can't imagine why anyone would want one today.

"POS"?

I find it hard to take such a cheap, throwaway comment seriously. If anything it makes your advocacy of an ".... 8K mile 78 Z selling for $30K +...." look to have less credibility rather than more. Anybody who would sweepingly call the Golf a "POS" is certainly not much of an authority on modern commercial automotive history, and may very well be two or three sandwiches short of a full picnic.

Alan T.

I have to add my $.02.

One of my first cars was a US domestic market 1984 VW GTI. That was a GREAT car!! One of the original "pocket rockets". If you look around, the 1983-84 GTI's were well-respected in the automotive world and have made many "must have" or "must drive" lists!

Neither confirming nor denying anyone else's opinion, just stating how much I LOVED that car, and am looking for another for my 15 yr old to have for his first. (thought I could part with the Z when he turned 16, but THAT JUST AIN'T HAPPENING!!!)

Regards,

Astrohog

I think there needs to be a JNC user account that posts these articles, so they don't appear to be written by Mike. Should clear up any confusion about the source of the articles.

... Secondly, the car on sale in the linked ebay ad is a VW Golf. It is in Germany, and is a German domestic market model. It is not a 'Rabbit', and would have been a different spec to US market versions - especially the Californian market versions.

Alan T.

So Alan, I take it that you are trying to tell us that Volkswagen made a "special" U.S. specification engine equipped with junk valve guides that wore out and started leaking oil after 20000 miles? Why exactly would they do that.

Actually the valve guides weren't the thing that killed the Rabbit in the U.S. It was VW's unbelievably arrogant response to the problem.

A friend of mine had a 1976 Rabbit, and VW sent him a letter explaining that those cars had a "high performance European engine" which SHOULD use more oil than comparable "low performance" American cars. But if their stupid American customers wanted the oil consumption problem resolved they could take their cars to a VW dealer who, for a price, would "retrofit" different valve guides that wouldn't leak oil into the cylinders.

My friend just kept adding oil at EVERY fill-up! The thing used a quart of oil every 200 MILES until it had 190000 miles on the engine and would no longer start. (He wanted to see just how "high performance" the engine would get.)

There is a very good reason why VW's U.S. market share fell to nearly zero in the late 70's. From what I can tell their quality has never really improved, only their marketing. I owned two Volkswagens, a 1972, and a 1991. Those were the WORST two cars I ever owned, and I wouldn't take another one for free.

But I am happy that you had a good experience with yours.

I don't buy it, guys. Since 1979 I have owned 5 different VWs. Damned fine cars. Still own the '91 Jetta GLI 16v we bought new, my son drives it these days.

Two comments to add. First, I have had nothing but good times with my VWs. (Two first gen Sciroccos, an '86 GTI, a Corrado G60, and the above mentioned Jetta.) But something to consider - all but the GTI were German-built. The quality of the Pennsylvania cars was not as good, nor were the Mexican cars, for many years.

The other comment is that VWs market share in the US was only partially killed by things like the valve guide issue. (Which my '78 Scirocco never experienced, BTW.) The big thing was still VWofA's insistence on 'tailoring' the cars to the US market. The '75-78 Rabbits were German made, and were virtually identical to the home market cars. I bit higher trim, and with the bigger motors, but the suspension and interiors were basically the same. Their sales dropped off badly once they started softening the suspension, over-padding the seats, all the stuff that they thought the Americans wanted. They were wrong. The US consumer bought Rabbits because they were spritely, fun, nice handling economy cars. Take away the firm suspension and good seats, and it's no longer any different than other cars.

When did VW slowly start to make a comeback? In '83 when they introduced the GTI to the US, in a spec that was essentially the same car as the German version. People buy VWs because they like German cars. Dumb them down, and they're no longer special.

So Alan, I take it that you are trying to tell us that Volkswagen made a "special" U.S. specification engine equipped with junk valve guides that wore out and started leaking oil after 20000 miles? Why exactly would they do that.

That's what's known as a 'rhetorical' question, isn't it?

I'm afraid I've never actually heard of such woes with US spec Golfs ( sorry - 'Rabbits' ), so perhaps it didn't exactly make the front pages of the automotive press over here in little old Europe. Sounds like a fuel content problem to me. Or rather, a lack of content.

A friend of mine had a 1976 Rabbit, and VW sent him a letter explaining that those cars had a "high performance European engine" which SHOULD use more oil than comparable "low performance" American cars. But if their stupid American customers wanted the oil consumption problem resolved they could take their cars to a VW dealer who, for a price, would "retrofit" different valve guides that wouldn't leak oil into the cylinders.

My friend just kept adding oil at EVERY fill-up! The thing used a quart of oil every 200 MILES until it had 190000 miles on the engine and would no longer start. (He wanted to see just how "high performance" the engine would get.)

Your friend is my new hero. He really stuck with it, didn't he? Let's see - he took it up to 190,000 miles ( how long did that take? ), and at 200 miles per quart of oil that makes around 950 quarts doesn't it? If all the Golfs ( sorry - 'Rabbits' ) in the USA were burning that much oil it's no wonder we are running out now..........

Carl should invite him to his picnic. They'd get on like the proverbial house on fire.

:classic::classic::classic::classic:

Maybe reliability issue had something to do with the fact the VW Rabbit was made in the USA and the VW Golf wasn't?

VW did close the USA plant where the Rabbit was made ( I hear due to quality issues) and sent all the tooling to build the car to South Africa where they still continue to build the Mk1. It's looking a bit more modern these days with a modern interior and plastic bumpers, and it's alot cheaper than $30,000 at around $9500 base price.

Sounds like a fuel content problem to me. Or rather, a lack of content.

Maybe those famous German engineers should have designed for the fuel that they must have known would be used in their cars. I mean if GM can design valve guides to last in our "content lacking" fuel then...

Steve

I mean if GM can design valve guides to last in our "content lacking" fuel then...

That was just the ultimate putdown...

Wow, all you guys are merciless. I've never driven a Golf, and without that it's a car that really can't polarize me in any particular way.

Giugiaro once claimed that he designed it as a mini DeTomaso Mangusta, but to me it always just looked as if the goal was to test just how much automotive journalists could actually praise a washing machine if it had his name on it (and they did :eek: but I guess it had other things going for it). Just about all of his other 70s/80s contraptions take that concept to even boxier and uglier lengths (his lines of Fiats, Hyundais, etc.). I think he'd be the most hit/miss car designer ever, if his misses weren't bad for just being boring...

Anyway, this pic always amused me, and it always seemed like the analogy could be one suffered by the Corvette as well:

Edited September 13, 200816 yr by Danglybanger