Discussing 240Z values, especially Low VIN

[cunniwj]

Well said Carl. Many of those Z's going for the big $ are probably bought by those true collectors and intend to keep them and not for specualtion. I find it interesting watching the wide variation of the price of first gen Z's. I know condition has alot to do with it but those of the same condition do vary alot. As what has been said before they're only worth what someone is willing to pay for at the time.

I think many of us that own these cars are because we appreicate and enjoy a great little sports car that doen't break the bank to own.

[Bonzi Lon]

I find this an interesting thread also as I now own HLS30-00110, one of the first ones made, and HLS30-168500 (7-73) "the best model", one of the last ones made. The best of both worlds.

Bonzi Lon

[lonetreesteve]

I find this an interesting thread also as I now own HLS30-00110, one of the first ones made, and HLS30-168500 (7-73) "the best model", one of the last ones made. The best of both worlds.

Bonzi Lon

I thought the '72 model year was considered the best 240 model by most Z enthusiasts, not the '73.

[Poindexter]

I find this an interesting thread also as I now own HLS30-00110, one of the first ones made, and HLS30-168500 (7-73) "the best model", one of the last ones made. The best of both worlds.

Bonzi Lon

Ah but was it a Monday or Friday car??

You know about that subset of new cars...Monday they all had hangovers and Friday they all had headaches. And Tuesday cars we barely better than than Monday cars because all they could think about was "yesterday's hangover"...

So the "most valuable of the earlier cars" is the Wednesday cars, made just after lunch.

Seriously, I'm just joking about how some people have commented that apparently Z car prices are breaking up into different valuation strata, based on some prejudged set of criteria by certain types of collectors/buyers, I guess like layers of salt and fresh water- and does this lead or lag the market?

It does seem to be happening in many cases though. I think we- at least those of us that might be most served by having a more accurate pricing model- should consider creating a central price reference- kept and managed *onsite*, and not solely relying on any one source. Include ebay, autotrader, auction house reporting, craigslist...etc...but including them all. See something trade, post it. Buy or sell something- post it. Notice listing prices jumping- post it. All data points might provide some clarity. Then with some real empirical data in hand, some sort of weighting methodology might present itself, with the result being that a rational equation which better represents current valuation might be established. With enough reports we could learn which prices had the most correlation with the latest prices, and by a reductive process (or is it deductive?) we could get a better idea of WHAT contributes most to variances in pricing- with the goal to quantify such work- justify doing it or not doing it- selling or buying a car with a much more certain handle on current values.

Discussion here seems to be the first step towards measurement, or it remains simply an academic exercise with no resolution or verifiable answer. I have some experience with valuation models, and backtesting to optimize such equations, based on my experience on Wall Street as an options/stock trader. This is basically what I did all day- valuation models based on millions of data points- ignoring of course the fundamamental and technical influences on the pricing mode, (then pulling the trigger and committing large sums of money based on our findings- which certainly were nothing like bets at all, bettors wouldn't last a day) and it still intrigues me- so I'll volunteer to crunch numbers and publish the results. We would need lots of reporting- so rather than hijack this discussion, I'll be glad to begin a dedicated thread if the idea has enough interest. I would imagine that a simple,easy to access pricing model right here for visitors to peruse and add onto, would be a very good thing if it were accurate enough- even with Edmunds, Hagerty, duPont or whatever other valuation models are out there.

Edited September 12, 2008 by Poindexter

[Bonzi Lon]

My quote was in reference to post #37 and #40.

Bonzi Lon

[Carl Beck]

Discussion here seems to be the first step towards measurement, or it remains simply an academic exercise with no resolution or verifiable answer. .

Buying, Selling and Trading cars really is a carry over from the days of horse trading. "Buyer Beware" and "a fool and his money are soon parted" apply in spades! Its a matter of knowledge and experience vs a lack of both in all to many cases.

Everyone wants to brag about a good deal they made, no one wants to admit to being snookered. For that matter, few people want to admit that they paid full asking price for anything.

All too often seller, buyer or both get so tied up in the negotiation of the deal - that one or the other really miss closing a sale on a super car. Ego takes over.. and knowledge/experience are wasted.

Good models depend on accurate data points and I'm afraid that when it comes to horse trading, or car trading accurate data points will always be elusive at best.

People guard their privacy, actual selling prices are rarely reported for purposes of paying State Sales Taxes. Who in their right minds would then publish proof that they lied to the Tax Authority?

If you knew someone paid less than $5K for a car, would you then be willing to pay $25K for it? With rising values of Classic Sports Car why then would anyone want to publish the actual price they paid for a car?.... da....

Large sums of CASH trade hands, and are then broken into far smaller sums and deposited in many different bank accounts all under the $10K reporting criteria (private transactions are none of the DEA nor IRS's business).

About the only place we get a chance to see how much a car sold for - is at the auctions and E-Bay. Even then there are dubious transactions, sales that are backed out of after the car is physically inspected or the wife finds out. Not to mention the fact that we have no idea of the actual quality of the car because we haven't actually physically inspected it.

The bottom line is: When it comes to value or worth, simply ask yourself; "what else can I buy today in the Classic Sports Car market that offers the owner satisfaction and future potential for the amount of money I have to spend?" If there is nothing else, then buy the 240-Z you want. If there is something else that offers more - go buy it instead.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

Anyone know where HLS30 00198 is NOW.. and how to contact the owner? {old e-mail address isn't working}

thanks,

Carl B.

[26th-Z]

Thought this might be appropriate.