New Slave.....No Result

[doradox]

Let's start here. You have a clutch pedal attached , via a clevis, to the clutch master cylinder rod and then the clutch master cylinder. The rod screws in and out of the clevis to provide the pedal adjustment. There should be a nut used to lock the clevis and rod to hold the adjustment. From there a steel line down to a rubber hose attached to the slave cylinder. A rod (slave cylinder rod) coming out of the slave cylinder that pushes on the clutch release fork. I'm just trying to make sure we all are using the same terms for all the parts.

Adjust the rod and clevis to make the rod longer until the pedal is up as high as the pedal stop will let it go. You will be able to tell because it will become harder to turn the rod as the play is taken out of the pedal,rod,master cylinder system. Stop when all the play is taken out. Go back the other way a little so rod and clevis JUST feel loose. There's a spec for how loose this should be but let's ignore that for now.

Fill the clutch master cylinder and have someone push down ONCE and HOLD the pedal down. While the pedal is down open the bleeder screw on the slave cylinder. Wait a second and then close it. Then have the other person release the pedal slowly like if you were driving the car. Repeat this procedure until no more air comes out when you open the bleeder. Check the fluid often to make sure you don't run the MC dry or you will have to start all over. When you are bleeding you should get a pretty good squirt when you open the bleeder once most of the air is out.

Once the air is gone the rod coming out of the slave cylinder should move about an inch give or take.

If you do those things and report back we should be able to tell you what is wrong.

Steve

[dspillman]

I haven't read every message on this thread, but I had similar problem with a high milage car.... Part of problem was pin and hole in top of clutch pedal was worn to being paper thin, and had a ton of free play before master cylinder moved at all. Check it out.

Please excuse if this was mentioned earlier

David

[mally002]

Ok, just got back in and read all the post...First of all thanks for everyone's time, it is much appreaciated.

Using Sblakes picture I'll try and explain whats happening.

After everything was installed when I would push on the clutch pedal the push rod on the Master would depress and send fluid to the Slave. The push rod on the Slave would move just barely, I could push it in with my fingers but the pedal would not make it move that much, and it wouldn't move everytime just intermittent. The withdrawl lever thus would barely move as well. I can move the withdrawl lever by hand but it does have some resistance.

My 73 Slave is different from yours Steve, it is not adjustable. I did try and adjust the Master's push rod or clevis, and that is when it popped it off the whole cylinder, locking ring and all.

When I had everything connected earlier when you pressed on the pedal fluid would squirt out pretty good at the disconnected hose that would go on the Slave (I disconnected it to make sure fluid was being delivered)

It all appeared to be functioning normal, but the Slave push rod would not move that much....it's new, could it be bad?

I'm going back out there in a few and reconnect my master and start over. Once everything is connected if I leave the Slave dangling, or not bolted on and push the clutch pedal should the push rod be moving quite a bit.

Thanks again, film at 11:00.

PS.....Will be happy to give anyone my number if they think it would help instead of typing.

Edited October 10, 2008 by mally002

[Neumeier]

If you leave the slave dangling, and push the pedal, the piston will pop out. Don't do that!

The bleeding description you received sounds good. Have someone push and hold the pedal to the floor, open the bleed screw till fluid flows out (in a controlled manner), close the bleed screw, and tell your helper to release the pedal. Do this about 6 times, then top up the fluid reservoir. Then bleed a few more times until no air comes out. When you are finished, tighten the bleed screw and top up the reservoir.

I'm not sure about the adjustment issues. My '78 280Z has an adjustment only under the dash. Once yours is properly bled, you may have to test if the clutch is releasing correctly by starting the car and giving it a try. As someone mentioned above, the pushrod at the slave cylinder does not move much. Probably less than an inch of travel is typical.

Let us know how it goes!

[mally002]

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!!!!

The take away message from all this.............Bleed it 14 times........

It didn't make sense because I bleed the system a million times till all the air was out (or so I thought). This time out of pure frustration I had my son pump the pedal 20 times and hold, then I bleed it. After about the 9th time and my son complaining that his foot was getting tired, the bleeding seemed not to be the issue as there was no air escaping just fluid.

I told him to keep going that we were going to do this repetition 20 times.....20 pumps then bleed for 20 reps. I was going to stop at 20 no matter what, so on number 13 again it bleed pure fluid with no air, then on number 14 my son held the pedal and as soon as I loosened the valve a huge rush of air and fluid shot out and then ran smooth. I closed the valve and my son started pumping again and said......"Hey Dad the pedal is harder to push"..........I'll never forget those words, they are burned in my memory....

The clutch is working perfect now so the very first test drive will occur Tomorrow.....

AGAIN.....................Thanks to everyone for their input, hopefully one day I can return the favor.

Randy

[biddljj]

http://www.autotools.com.au/catalogue/product.php/10/12/58

Bleed-O-Matic One man Tool

I used this tool to bleed the clutch slave on my 72 240 with great success.

Make sure the capture bottle is higher than the valve being bleed.

Definite case of old dog new tricks.

zdisease

[ktm]

Randy, all of the symptoms you were describing were indicative of air in the lines. I know I thought that you were bleeding it wrong myself.

The hydraulic clutch system on our cars is a bitch to bleed correctly.

Congratulations.

[sblake01]

I agree with Bo. Something about the description of you attempts to bleed it didn't quite sound right. Not exactly sure what but sometimes it's hard to grasp everything that someone writes. I just know that I've bled several of these clutches and never had much problem doing it. Did you start with a completely empty system without bench bleeding the master first? That would likely explain the overall difficulty.

[Sailor Bob]

I use the "bleedomatic" - follow the instructions and bingo. Works very well.

[sblake01]

I open the bleeder, pump the pedal about 8 to 10 times, wedge the pedal with a telescopic bar that I use for just this purpose, close the bleeder, and check the clutch for functionality. I rarely have had to do that more than twice as long as I wasn't starting with a completely empty system. For that, I would use a second person.

[doradox]

I typically just open the bleeder and let the system gravity bleed. As long as there is some fluid in the line to begin with it will usually start bleeding just fine. I have found that all the pumping can introduce small air bubbles in the fluid. I just let it run for a while and keep the master topped up. If you want a system that's hard to bleed try a 240SX. There's a parallel loop in the system below the slave that is a pain to get bled.

Steve

Steve

[Carl Beck]

Hey John,

After I installed the new master I filled with fluid and had my son push the pedal 20-30 times,

2 or 3 slow pumps are enough - and your son has to stop and hold the pedal to the floor - while you open then close the bleed valve. You should see some spits of air, then fluid.

2 or 3 more slow pumps - your son holds the pedal to the floor - you open/close the bled valve.You should see less spits of air, then more fluid.

2 or 3 more slow pumps - your son holds the pedal to the floor - you open/close the bled valve. By this time, you should be getting NO Air - and only clean fluid out of the valve - if so you are done.

If not - check to see that the master is full - and repeat one or two more times.

When your son pumps the clutch pedal, and is then holding it on the floor - he should yell "FLOOR!" and hold it there. After you crack/close the bled valve you yell "PUMP" and your should should pump then hold the pedal to the floor and yell "FLOOR" again.

Having your son yell "FLOOR" also reminds him to hold the pedal to the floor until you yell "PUMP" again. With young people it is very important that they understand this procedure...

then I turned the bleed valve on the slave to purge the air. We repeated this numerous times. I then used clear tubing from the bleed valve on the slave and ran it into fresh fluid and repeated the procedure, air would come out then steady fluid.

This concerns me - if that is the case - either your son wasn't holding the pedal steady on the floor - or you are sucking air from a bad rubber line, or loose connection. Or the clutch master went dry and allowed more air back into the system.

The lines from the Master to the Slave aren't that long, and it shouldn't take much pumping, to clear any air in the lines.

After all of this at no time did the resistance to the clutch change.

Forget about "resistance" for a minute. The real question is "is the push rod from the Slave, moving out about an inch to an inch and a half- and thus moving the clutch fork about an inch toward the rear of the car?

If the answer to that is "yes" - you don't have a problem with the clutch hydraulics at this point.

Am I doing something wrong? I will admit I have never bleed or installed a slave and master cylinder before.

From your description - where you failed to note the clutch pedal held at the floor... I'd have to say "maybe". Re-bled the system, per the exact procedures above - and try it again. {Forget resistance}

Check to see that the rod from the slave is moving out and pushing on the clutch fork.

If the rod and clutch fork are moving - Start the car in neutral - step on the clutch and see if you can put the car in gear. If you can't... let the engine warm up fully... then pump the clutch pedal at several different times as the engine comes up to full operating temp ... and see if the clutch disc breaks free from the flywheel - you'll know it did because at that point you'll feel the resistance that should be there from the pressure plate.

If that doesn't work - turn the car off. Put it in second gear... hold the clutch in.. hold the brake pedal on firmly - - bump the starter several times. The car should buck, it won't hurt anything.. but it "should" break the clutch disc free from the flywheel.

In extreme cases - you have to start the car in gear and let it run down the street at slow speed. Holding the clutch pedal to the floor.. you yank up hard on the E-Brake handle, while at the same time giving it some gas. This may take three or four of five tries... but the clutch disc will break free from the flywheel - and at that point you'll feel the resistance your looking for - and you should have a working clutch..

Absolutely no resistance in the clutch pedal, especially when you have a new master and slave - normally indicates the disc is rusted/frozen to the flywheel from prolonged non-use.

FWIW, - just as I see it from the previous discussions

Carl B.