New member here, I might have a ZZZap, but I need help to make sure

[ZDemon]

Hey guys, what's up, My name is Justin, but most of the Local Z guys have taken to calling me the ZDemon.

I've been a member of a few other Z forums for the last couple of years, but this is my first time on CZCC.

I've had My 240Z "The DemonZ" since 06/06/06, bought a 300ZX Vert from Ed Kelly at the Z Clinic back in June to replace my SUV as a Daily Driver.

But enough about me, lets jump right into the issue with the 280Z.

Here's the situation. Some friends came across a guy who was trying to get a shell out of his garage, and since they knew I was looking for one, they sent it my way.

I saw a few pictures of the car, and did not see any rust, but did not know anything about the owner, or the car besides what I could gather from the three pictures I was sent. The car no longer had the engine or transmission, but the guy was getting rid of it for next to nothing, so I figured I'd grab it regardless of the condition.

When I arraived at his house to pick up the car, I was shocked to find that not only was this car virtually rust free, but every single bolt, every trim piece, absolutely every part on the car was in boxes waiting to go along with the car. Even the original jack, wheel chocks, and the spare lug nuts, still in the package.

On top of that HE HAD ALL OF THE ORIGINAL PAPERS. Owners Maunal, Original Kansas Title that showed only two owners, The warranty book, A package with "Car Papers" written on it containing receipts from 1977-99.

A glorious find to say the least.

But it gets better. 2 Days ago, I spent the time to scan and upload all the papers that came with the car, and posted them on another Nissan forum.

A few hours later, someone pointed out the paint code in my warranty book:

The Paint Code is 411. The ZZZap code.

http://zhome.com/History/ZColorGallary/index.html

^According to Zhome, that is the Special edition color.

Here's my dilemma though. My Z does not have the stripes, or any color differences where the stripes would have been that could verify that it was indeed a Zap.

Here are the two images I have that actually show the body:

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/1496/p1000608sw4.jpg

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/8445/p1000599ls4.jpg

I have spent the last 24 hours (have barely slept) trying to search for any information on the ZZZap. But all the info I find seems to be identical to the info on ZHome. From the info I have found, the 411 Code supposedly means that it is indeed a Zap. BUT, I saw a post on Zcar.com that leads me to believe that there may have been non-zap cars available in the 411 Sunburst Yellow.

I've asked around quite a bit, but no seems to be able to give me a straight answer.

Was the 411 Sunburst Yellow only available on the Zap? Or was the 411 color widely available without the Zap decals?

Thanks for taking the time to read my long drawn out post, and thanks in advance for any help you can give!

-Justin "ZDemon"

[geezer]

Was the 411 Sunburst Yellow only available on the Zap? Or was the 411 color widely available without the Zap decals?

Hi Justin, I don't know squat about the ZZZAP model but I did see this ad for sale on Ebay showing the color without the special stripes. Could be an indication that the color was available without the stripes?

The paint looks to be an older repaint in your pics, Take a look at how the original paint would have faded by now in this link. I'm sure someone will be able to provide more info.

http://www.zcar.com/forums/read/4/1939765

[ZDemon]

Hi Justin, I don't know squat about the ZZZAP model but I did see this ad for sale on Ebay showing the color without the special stripes. Could be an indication that the color was available without the stripes?

The paint looks to be an older repaint in your pics, Take a look at how the original paint would have faded by now in this link. I'm sure someone will be able to provide more info.

http://www.zcar.com/forums/read/4/1939765

I definitely appreciate the Ebay ad, that's one of the of the few things I had found that seems to make figuring this out a little more complicated.

The info I keep finding tells me that the 411 means it IS the Zap, but I've found a few little things, such as that add, that seem to indicate the color was available without the stripes. HOWEVER, that ad seems to insinuate that that IS a Zap as well.

It's all very confusing.

As for My car's paint. It seems to be original. The car was in Kansas from 77 till around 04-06 and has virtually no rust. It has 90K miles and spent the majoity of it's life in the garage. I've actually started grinding down the one rust spot near the back of the car, and there was only one layer of paint and one layer of primer that I saw. I've also started on removing the interior tar. The paint and primer on the interior of the car appears to match the outer paint.

I suppose it is possible though, I'll have to go back to my shop and double check.

Thanks again for the ebay ad, and the pictures of the faded zap for sale.

[Arne]

I is my understanding that the ZZZap Appearance package was not installed by the factory in Japan. It was applied to Sunburst Yellow cars here in the US. I've heard that not all of the Sunburst Yellow cars had the decals applied, but most (if not all) got the dual 'racing' mirrors and rear window louvers.

[geezer]

If you can have a set of stripes reproduced or even painted on, that would be cool. You just don't see ZZZAPs that much anymore, probably because of the extra effort required to duplicate the stripes. Good luck with this interesting project.

[conedodger]

Carl would probably know more but if I recall correctly the ZZZap cars had the vinyl stripe kit and dual mirrors as well as the rear louvers like the Black Pearl Edition. I have seen a few and they were nice. I am not sure the fact that it is a ZZZap or a Black Pearl will do any more that generate more interest in your car over the others if you were to try to sell it later. For now at least the money cars are the first generation 240Z. Particularly the first 1000 cars.

I would bet though by your tone that selling it later is not on your mind. It would make a great project bringing it back to original look. I hope you take lots of pics if you do...

[sblake01]

They made code 411 yellow 77s and code 638 black 78s w/o the specail appearance package though not many of either. I'm old enough and into Datsuns enough the have seen both in the showroom. Without the stripes, etc, a yellow 77 is just a yellow 77 and a black 78 is just a black 78. While you wouldn't really call the non-SAP cars a 'ZZZap' or a 'BPE', or at least I wouldn't, they are rarer. What that's worth in either case is up to you. I don't think either of them are worth anything more than a regular 77 or 78 but that's JMO. Other than the paint, stripes, etc. there was no badging, or special vin number or anything like that to distinguish them from the mainstream 280Z. 30+ years have passed and, unless it's been in a vacuum, it will need work. If you restore one to the original setup, be it a ZZZap, or a BPE, you could do the same thing with a regular 77 or 78. If you did a good enough job, no one would be able to tell you that it wasn't genuine. That, to me, adds no extra value.

[Carl Beck]

I know the thread is about the ZZZAAP Z's... I'm still looking for original window stickers for them.... but a comment about the Black Pearl's...

1978 280Z Black Pearl Edition

The Black Pearl Metallic Paint is listed on the Factory Window Sticker as a $90.00 option. So any 280Z produced with the Black Pearl Metallic Paint - is a Black Pearl Edition. I don't see how there can be any question about that.

Very few were produced, because it was the first Z to be offered with black as an optional factory color. It was more or less a "test market vehicle". Nissan wasn't sure black would be popular on a Sports/GT (how many factory Black Corvettes before 1970 have you seen?) so they produced a few black 280Z's to see how they would sell in America.

As it turned out - the Black Z's sold like hot cakes with demand exceeding supply. The result was "Black" for the 280ZX's.... as a standard color.

The SAP was an additional cost option, over and above the Black Pearl Metallic Paint. The SAP was around $149.00 and like the extra cost Black Pearl Metallic Paint, the SAP was listed on the window sticker.

So either with or without the SAP - a Black Pearl is a Black Pearl. The highest prices are paid for the Black Pearls with the SAP and optional 5spd. listed on the original window sticker - and the car in #1 or #2 condition. (factory A/C doesn't seem to greatly effect price, but it makes the car easier to resell).

Can you duplicate/re-create a Black Pearl with the SAP? Sure, but to do a good enough job to fool knowledgeable buyers - it would cost you more than just buying a Collector Example with full documentation.

Anything less than all original - Collector Quality - and the value goes down extremely.. Of the thousand or so produced, only a handful remain in near perfect ORIGINAL condition, with less than 30K miles, and full original documentation.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Carl Beck

[sblake01]

So any 280Z produced with the Black Pearl Metallic Paint - is a Black Pearl Edition. I don't see how there can be any question about that.

IMO a BPE has the SAP. A 78Z with black pearl paint is just that. JMO. My car isn't a 'Blue Metallic Edition'. I have those window stickers somewhere also. Edited October 10, 2008 by sblake01
To note that this is post 7K!

[Hrududu]

Do you know where in Kansas the car was?

[ZDemon]

Do you know where in Kansas the car was?

The car was originally sold on 5/6/1977 at the "Garden City Datsun" Dealership in Garden City Kansas. The Salesman's name was Buzz Garner(I have his business card from '77) to a woman named Sheila.

I do not have record of the original sales price.

On 6/2/77 The car was brought into Garden City Datsun for it's 1K mile check up. It had 890 miles on it.

The Car was sold to "The Western Motor Company" on 3/17/79 with 9,026 miles. Not sure how much they paid for it.

On 4/17/1979, "The Western motor Company" sold the car to a man named Dan. The car had 9,100 miles on it.

The car sold for $7732.50, used.

Dan had the car registered on 5/2/79 in Seward County.

He lived in Liberal Kansas, about 60 miles south of Garden City.

The next Receipt I have is from 1/4/1983. Dan bought a battery at The Kmart Auto Center in Liberal for $25.24. His address was still at the same address in Liberal. Mileage read at 50,629

Some time between 1983 and 1999 the car was given to Dan's son, Chris.

10/19/1999 Chris took the car to Marv's Garage. It had 85,545 miles on it. Major work was done, I wont list it all. Chris's address Was in Garden City, a stone's throw from the original owner, Sheila's 1977 address.

Between 1999 and 2006 the car was brought down here to Texas.

Some time in Mid 2006, the car was sold to a fellow named Brook.

And I bought it from him.

The title I have is the one Dan received in 1979. it was never transferred into Chris or Brook's name.

I is my understanding that the ZZZap Appearance package was not installed by the factory in Japan. It was applied to Sunburst Yellow cars here in the US.

That is definately true, it was a sales tactic here in the US only.

If you can have a set of stripes reproduced or even painted on, that would be cool. You just don't see ZZZAPs that much anymore, probably because of the extra effort required to duplicate the stripes. Good luck with this interesting project.

At this point I'm very much considering doing that.

The original plan for this car was going to be, paint it black with a red stripe down the passenger side of the hood roof and hatch, weld in the 10 point cage I have sitting in my shop, and build an L28ET for it. I have a vintage set of BRE springs, a set of polyurethane bushings, and some upgrades for the brakes laying around as well.

I think at this point I may go ahead with the ZZZap color scheme, but also do all the planned upgrades, cage, turbo, brakes suspension, basically the works. I suppose a "TURBO ZZZAP" would be pretty cool.

I would bet though by your tone that selling it later is not on your mind. It would make a great project bringing it back to original look. I hope you take lots of pics if you do...

Selling it never crossed my mind. Before I found out about the paint code, I had already been offered a fully built 12 second 77 280Z. 12 hours after that offer my friend Marc who is the fabricator for Boost Logic (builders of the worlds fastest Supra) offered me 2 $500 Blow Off Valves and a seriously built VG30.

I said no, nicely, both times with no hesitation.

They made code 411 yellow 77s and code 638 black 78s w/o the specail appearance package though not many of either. I'm old enough and into Datsuns enough the have seen both in the showroom. Without the stripes, etc, a yellow 77 is just a yellow 77 and a black 78 is just a black 78. While you wouldn't really call the non-SAP cars a 'ZZZap' or a 'BPE', or at least I wouldn't, they are rarer. What that's worth in either case is up to you. I don't think either of them are worth anything more than a regular 77 or 78 but that's JMO. Other than the paint, stripes, etc. there was no badging, or special vin number or anything like that to distinguish them from the mainstream 280Z. 30+ years have passed and, unless it's been in a vacuum, it will need work. If you restore one to the original setup, be it a ZZZap, or a BPE, you could do the same thing with a regular 77 or 78. If you did a good enough job, no one would be able to tell you that it wasn't genuine. That, to me, adds no extra value.

That was what I was trying to find out. I'm going to take some time examining the car to see if I can spot any color difference where the decals should have been.

Then hopefully the answer will be clearer. This means there's a chance it was, but also a chance that it was not the Zap.

I think at this point, either way, I'm going to try to replicate the Zap decals using paint.

After I've spent a few hour staring at the hood cross eyed, I'll let you guys know if it is for sure a Zap, or if it's going to stay the "maybe it is, maybe it's not" car.

Thanks everybody.

-Justin

[ZDemon]

P.S.

Here's some pictures of a 280 ZZZAP arcade game I ran across in my research:

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/1390/280zzzapnk4.png

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/2881/280zzzap6qw8.png