Rear Spoiler

[Mike B]

Ron (Carter)

I noticed that the BRE site has this comment on the page where they sell the decals:

"Just a reminder: the BRE race car graphics and BRE logo are trademarks of Brock Racing Enterprises LLC. If you have, or are creating, a clone of a BRE car, please contact us for licensing information at info@bre2.net"

I wonder what they consider a clone to be? Copying the exact BRE paint scheme and decals? What if someone uses different color combinations? I think someone in another thread proposed painting their car a similar scheme, except using yellow and black. I wonder if that would be considered a clone? Can someone be sued for having an unlicensed clone of a BRE car?

-Mike

[Ron Carter]

Hi Mike,

Yes, BRE is protecting their trademarks. This includes the paint scheme, decals etc. Mostly this is to protect BRE from companies that would offer a model for sale with their paint scheme on a Datsun car in such a way as it could be considered a "BRE" type vehicle.

This is not meant to deter individuals from building a BRE replica, and it is not a way for BRE to generate revenue. It is a way for them to protect what they have created.

In order for BRE to hold up their trademarks they must enforce this to all parties. Including tribute vehicles like mine.

Gayle has forwarded me a copy of their agreement and I have made several recommendations regarding how they approach this as it is not meant to effect the construction of tribute cars, and create problems their owners. If anything it would be a bonus at the time that a BRE approved tribute car came up for sale as it will be well documented by the real article.

As to the specifics of your question....

BRE Graphics in narrative form:

Car has diagonal strips that extend from the top rear of the front quarter panel, across the door seam, to the bottom of the front of the door.

Approx 1/3 down the length of the stripes there is a break where the name Datsun or BRE is placed.

Car is to be painted in two contrasting colors.

The first color is to extend from the front of the car (front spoiler) over the top of the car (hood, roof and trunk lid) down the back of the car (down the backside and below the bumper).

This “top” color is to extend slightly down the sides of the car (approx 2 inches)

This “top” color is to be used for the stripes. In the case of a two-color car the “top” color will be the color of the entire stripe

The second color is to be used:

For the sides of the car, filling in the entire area from below the line of the top color to the bottom of the car.

On the back of the car in the area that houses the brake lights.

As a “panel insert” on the back half of the top of the car

There is the option to use a third color. If a third color is used it will be used as the color of the bottom 2/3rd of the diagonal stripes

Also included as part of the schema is the use of over-sized race numbers. These numbers are placed on the hood of the car, on each side of the car and on the top of the car in the 2nd color “panel insert”.

The BRE logo is to be visible from all sides of the car. In the back it will be placed where a license plate would reside. In the front it will be on the spoiler. On the sides it is to be placed where side marker lights would normally be located.

Edited November 11, 2008 by ron carter

[Oiluj]

I understand the power of trademarks, but does BRE still race S30's? If not, I don't see much issue here, as long as it's clear that the car is a "replica".

Am I off-base on this?

[Ron Carter]

Julio,

I would suggest that you forward your question to Gayle Brock directly. As far as I know, they do not race Datsuns of any type currently.

I know that Peter has a 510, but it is not painted up as a BRE car.

As far as I know, they are within their legal right to do this, I thought that the paint scheme is a little far fetched, but Gayle says otherwise.

I will stress again, that they are not trying to apply pressure to any party who wishes to build a replica or tribute car. They are trying to protect their property from model manufactures and alike.

[Oiluj]

I've been exposed to trademarked material and I have a few patents, so I am a strong proponent of enforcement, but only where it makes sense.

Is BRE focused on limiting use by individuals making replica vehicles, or just going after those trying to make money off of their name? If the latter, I completely, 100% support their position.

However, if they limit partial emulation or actual "replicas" of 30+ year old Datsun paint schemes by individuals, I don’t believe it to be reasonable. It's also a good way to hurt BRE’s reputation in the Datsun motorsports fan base...

However your write-up does beg a legal question.__Is the BRE Datsun paint scheme a "registered" Trademark or “currently” valid Copyright?

I'm no lawyer, (and am operating from memory here), but my limited understanding is that trademarks have infinite life span. Copyrights, like patents, expire after a period of time. My recollection is copyrights have a 28-year life span unless re-registered in the year it expires. If re-registered, they last a very long time.

If BRE is using the "legal" card to limit use, it might be worth checking into.

[Ron Carter]

Again, I cannot speak to the legal side of this as I am not a lawyer. Gayle was clear to me that this was not an attempt to generate $$$.

It is to protect their TRADEMARKS, according to the draft agreement she sent over to me.

The document is called "BRE Tribute Trademark Agreement".

Again, I would forward any additional questions to Info@bre2.net

[five&dime]

Ron,

Are you referring to Pete Brock's orange 510? If so, a guy named Dave in MD from the 510 forum bought that car from Pete a few years ago. He has a great shot of the two of them in front of the car with Pete signing the title The car is immaculate!!

[Carl Beck]

no - Peter built a new V8 powered 510. I think it is pictured elsewhere on this site from the recent Japanese Classic Car Show..

FWIW,

Carl B.

[five&dime]

Whaaa??!!!:surprised

I got to drive a Titan for the first time this weekend. I was just thinking how great that engine would be in a 510 or S30 :devious: If you could make it fit......

Edited November 11, 2008 by five&dime

[Carl Beck]

I think to more fully understand or appreciate the "Trade Mark" thing - you have to keep in mind that Peter Brock is a "Professional Designer". In a broader sense he is an accomplished and well known Industrial Designer. He has designed cars, hang-gliders, and Graphics Packages among many other things.

For example, Mr. Brock created the paint scheme and logos for Shelby America while employed there. Of course we all know that Mr. Shelby had copyright and registered trade marks on everything related to the Shelby Brand Name.

The BRE Racing Team's cars were all rolling bill boards for "Peter Brock Designs" and the BRE Corporation, and thus the image of the BRE Cars Graphic Design packages, became Registered Trade Marks of Peter Brock and BRE Inc. They were "award winning" Graphic Design Packages

Model Companies are one group that reproduce the BRE Design images, but there are people out there that were selling complete BRE Decal Packages on E-Bay as well, without permission and without paying the royalties due.

Like Ron said, if you are doing a replica or tribute car I don't think you would have any problem getting a release from BRE. Matter of fact if the replica was complete and accurate enough to warrant a "release from BRE"... it would in a way be an endorsement of accuracy from them!! On the other hand if you are making money by using a BRE Design, without paying the royalties due any professional designer... you are in effect stealing from them.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Oiluj]

On the other hand if you are making money by using a BRE Design, without paying the royalties due any professional designer... you are in effect stealing from them.

FWIW,

Carl B.

I didn't know about his background as an industrial designer.Thanks for that.As I stated in my previous post, completely agree with your statement above. In fact, I feel strongly enough about it that I don't practice illegal duplication of movies or software.

FWIW, I was simply digging a bit deeper into BRE's perspective regarding "not for profit", personal use by an individual. For classic Z's, the BRE graphics are iconic, symbolizing a "fast" car, similar to the GT40 Gulf color scheme. (I've seen a couple of those driving around with Gulf graphics).

It's also "where" you draw the line onwhat they consider "infringement". For example, would CoastGuard Z's ghost diagonal fender stripes be considered infringement? In my mind it would not, because it's not a direct copy of the BRE paint scheme. Of course, lawyers might happily make alot of money fighting over something like that in court...

My apologies to anyone if this is a sensitive subjetc. I'm kinda like a kid poking a dead frog with a stick on this one...

[Ron Carter]

Julio,

I am not sure where the line is drawn here. Ghosted images are a good question.

These are not sensitive questions, just ones I don't have answers to and would refer to the people directly involved.

This subject has direct bearing on me personally because I have built a BRE tribute car, and I will get mine licensed by BRE. I would suggest others to do so as well.

BTW, The frog is still dead

Carl,

Thanks for the background, we know the history, sometimes I overlook that others do not.