Very Clean '71 with Only 66,000 Miles Up For Auction

[xray]

$16,100 is way undervalued from how the car shows in pics. Maybe it's the recession, maybe it's just well bought, but I think it should've been sold for more. Hope it's just a fluke.....

[Carl Beck]

Several thoughts come to mind.

1. I love the blue...but the repaint looks about four shades too light from the original 901.

2. I wonder just how good that repaint was - what is the actual quality of the job? You'd have to see it in person. (over-spray on the front tow hook is not encouraging however -it should have been either mask off, or removed - and the seller provides no pictures of the front of the undercarriage... humm).

3. I wonder just how many hours the owner or previous owner spent detailing the car. The engine compartment looks amazingly clean and has no doubt been "refreshed". Likewise - the chrome strips on the doors...

4. The undercarriage looks like it was subjected to the usual Dealer Installed Undercoating.. but it also looks like they did an exceptionally neat job.

I think it was very "well bought" - on the other hand how much do you pay today for a very clean #3 condition car? I think top money for me would have been $18K. Get much past that and you might as well go for a #2 condition car. On the other hand, if you paid $18K for one out of the West Coast, it would cost you another $2K to get is shipped to the East Coast.... Given the present economy I'd say that both the Buyer and Seller did OK... maybe the buyer got a good deal, but that's what it takes today to sell in that market segment...

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Based Strictly On The Pictures Provided:

A #2 Condition Car This #3 Condition Car

D-Hub Caps Wrong hub caps - $500.00 to $1000.00

Correct Yellow Cad. Parts Dulled gray items -$1500.00 to $2,500.00

High quality paint good quality job - $6,000.00+

Stock Outside Rear View Mirror Datsun Racing Mirrors - $500.00

Stock Bumpers/Rubbers Dealer Front Bumper Bar -$250.00

Things like that are what make some of the difference between a #2 and #3 car.

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Notes:

No close-up / detailed pictures of the rear deck threshold plate.

No close-up /detailed pictures of the rear wheel arches and dog-legs

Over-spray on the front tow hook (questions about the quality of the repaint)

If I wanted a Blue/Blue 71 - If the car is as represented - I wouldn't be afraid to pay $18K to $20K if I had too. Of course I'd rather start out at $16K and leave a little room to correct any minor flaws that bugged me....

From the sellers perspective - $16K today is better than a "hoped for" $18K next month or next year.

BTW - 5 years ago, this would have been a $4,500.00 to $6,500.00 240-Z.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Edited November 24, 2008 by Carl Beck

[Arne]

$16,100 is way undervalued from how the car shows in pics. Maybe it's the recession, maybe it's just well bought, but I think it should've been sold for more. Hope it's just a fluke.....

I think it was very "well bought" - on the other hand how much do you pay today for a very clean #3 condition car? I think top money for me would have been $18K. Get much past that and you might as well go for a #2 condition car.

BTW - 5 years ago, this would have been a $4,500.00 to $6,500.00 240-Z.

My 2¢, from the perspective of someone who owns a very similar #3 condition car.

1.) I wonder about the 'value' of the blue interior. To people new to 240Zs, the blue interior is odd, and many newbies don't care for it. Something as simple as that could easily have kept a couple of people from bidding, and could have helped to keep the final cost down.

2.) I've seen this discussion about the relative value of #3 and #2 cars here before. And I don't think the comparisons are all that valid. Someone who is in the market for a true #2 car isn't even going to look hard at one like this. Too much work to bring it to true #2 condition. But a person (like myself, for example) who wants a Z to drive isn't going to pop for a #2 car. But they might spend more than some of us think to buy the best #3 that they can find.

Consider - this car sold for $16k, plus possibly some shipping cost, depending on where the buyer lives. For that price they got what appears to be a nicely cared for, great looking and driving classic sports GT car, that you can drive frequently, and will turn heads everywhere it goes. What else can you buy for $16-18k that will do and be that? Or for $20k, for that matter?

[Carl Beck]

2.) I've seen this discussion about the relative value of #3 and #2 cars here before. And I don't think the comparisons are all that valid. Someone who is in the market for a true #2 car isn't even going to look hard at one like this. Too much work to bring it to true #2 condition. But a person (like myself, for example) who wants a Z to drive isn't going to pop for a #2 car. But they might spend more than some of us think to buy the best #3 that they can find.

Hi Arne:

I think it is valid to compare a #2 and #3 Condition car, because regardless of who buys them - everone seems to be interested in the selling prices of any/all 240-Z's. I was only trying to briefly address the reasons for the price gap when you jump from one level to the next.

Consider - this car sold for $16k, plus possibly some shipping cost, depending on where the buyer lives. For that price they got what appears to be a nicely cared for, great looking and driving classic sports GT car, that you can drive frequently, and will turn heads everywhere it goes. What else can you buy for $16-18k that will do and be that? Or for $20k, for that matter?

Well, if one had acted soon enough - maybe here:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showpost.php?p=274002&postcount=1

Don't we see cars like this in the $8K to $12K range quite often? At $20K (or even at $16K) wouldn't have #48 at $21K made a lot more sense?

I think the real question is - do you pay $6K, $12K or $16K for a #3 car to drive. When you get up to $18K-$20K are you really wishing to have a Driver - or do you want to drive a show car. For $21K I'd have taken #48 every time.

Everyone has to answer that for themselves I guess.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Arne]

Hi Arne:

I think it is valid to compare a #2 and #3 Condition car, because regardless of who buys them - everone seems to be interested in the selling prices of any/all 240-Z's. I was only trying to briefly address the reasons for the price gap when you jump from one level to the next.

Yeah, I'll buy that - up to a point. I understand the reasons for the price gap, but I don't think they're relevant for many potential buyers. Someone looking for a #2 or better car will have glanced at this car, will have seen that it wasn't that caliber and moved on. On the other hand, an enthusiast like myself may look at the high-end cars, but will gravitate back to the cars like this one instead. The markets for #2 and #3 don't overlap much, if at all.

At $20K (or even at $16K) wouldn't have #48 at $21K made a lot more sense?

No. Not to me, at any rate. The subject of this thread appeared to be ready to drive and enjoy. Sure, it wasn't show worthy, but that's fine. As a great-looking classic to drive and enjoy, it didn't lack much.

But #48 for $21k? That extra $5k would have been wasted in my case. Because you don't maintain a low-VIN or any #2 car in that condition by driving it back and forth to work a couple of times per week, as I do my car routinely. As has been mentioned in the past, I'm an enthusiast, not a collector. Doesn't matter what car I have, I'm going to drive it. And so pretty soon it won't be a #2 car anymore. So why pay extra for that at the beginning?

I think the real question is - do you pay $6K, $12K or $16K for a #3 car to drive. When you get up to $18K-$20K are you really wishing to have a Driver - or do you want to drive a show car. For $21K I'd have taken #48 every time.

The answer to how much should one pay is always the same - buy the best car you can find and afford. If a $18k #3 car is better than a $12k car, buy the more expensive one if you can swing it. Even those of us who drive our cars regularly like to have them in great condition. These days even $20k for second car for weekends and occasional other use is nothing to many people. So why should we balk at a $20k #3 240Z, if it is VERY nice?

I don't know the final answer. As you noted above, we all have to make our own decisions on this. But we've all seen the threads that claim that the Z community itself is holding down the market on 240Zs, and I do believe that might be the case. Part of the issue is us picking apart every car we see, finding flaws and "wrong" details.

But perhaps the larger picture is that too many Z people are trying to hold all 240Zs to the "collectible" standard. Here was a very nice, mostly stock 240Z. Granted, it was not a #2 car. So why do we feel we need to judge it by those standards? Why not judge it for what it is, not what it isn't? Compare it to the general market, not to a fixed "240Z show car" target. Compare it to similar a TR-6 for example.