Anyone think of some other way to validate the correct use of these two different "D" caps?

This could be a tough question to answer. The sellers response to me was his belief that I had it backwards and he thought he had 3 early D caps and 1 later version. I haven't responded to him yet, because he has made me think about something I brought up in Kat's thread recently. The slides that Kats has recently aquired show what is a very early car and is the same car used to take the photographs for the Service Manual P/N 99999-20016, which is an undated edition. It has what I thought to be the later style D caps mounted. This makes me ask...why? Also, look at this prototype photo, which is most certainly pre-production. Have we had this wrong all along? Notice the center D is rotated 180 degrees in the prototype pic.

Zealous, PM me an email address and I get some pics in the daylight tomorrow.

Edited December 6, 200816 yr by geezer

Interesting. I would guess they must have still been working out what the final hubcaps would look like when the picture of that prototype and the one on Kat's slides were taken. Here is a picture of what must be one of the final prototypes or early production car because it has a gas door (the other one did not), an "OK" sticker, and the Datsun fender emblem. I would bet all of these prototype hubcaps have the larger mounting tabs on the back. HLS30-00032 has three of its original hubcaps and I recently came across another one owner low vin car (11/69 production) that has all four of its original hubcaps. All of the early caps on these cars have the valve hole below the D and the valve hole is centered on one of the spokes. See the pictures below.

-Mike

Edited December 6, 200816 yr by Mike B

....., so it would appear that the only benifit to owning the early set is bragging rights.

Dan

Damn straight!!!

I'm looking at Westpak's gallery of his one owner series 1 with D caps and it definately has the valve stem above an opening.

http://www.sfzcc.com/gus/240Z/HLS3022555day1d.JPG

Vin# 02/71 HLS30-22555

So I would not call this one early. Would you?

if it helps mine is build date 2/71 and the hubcaps have the valve stem hole at top of D and in between spokes

edit: you beat me to it

edit: you beat me to it

! Yes, I had your car fresh in my mind. When I bought my first 240 in 1981 I was living in Boca. It was a 71 also. So when I saw you were from Lake Worth I had an instant connection and wanted to see what 40 year old Florida cars look like.

My first z was totaled on Military Trail and Palmetto Park road in 1982, right after a rebuild. Fortunately I walked away but my z died that day. Drunk guy turned left right in front of me.

Edit: How's the car coming????

Edited December 6, 200816 yr by JohnnyO

The slides that Kats has recently aquired show what is a very early car and is the same car used to take the photographs for the Service Manual P/N 99999-20016, which is an undated edition. It has what I thought to be the later style D caps mounted. This makes me ask...why? Also, look at this prototype photo, which is most certainly pre-production. Have we had this wrong all along? Notice the center D is rotated 180 degrees in the prototype pic.

geezer. The early caps with fewer, less aggressive clips were often lost due to wheel flex. The fix was more clips with a more aggressive grip design, thus, the later design. That has always been my take on the difference. I, also, noticed in my copy of the early 240z dealer brochure, the valve stem location was in line with a spoke and below the D ornament.

Kats, a credible historian of early z parts, also has a picture of his early D caps on his web site, and offers that they are the earliest D caps, which correlates with what we have been saying.

If the set of early D caps I bought were actually original to the four 11/70 steel wheels that they came with, then early caps could have been correct up to the end of the series 1 production.

An interesting twist on what is EARLY!

Dan

The slides & pictures would suggest a pre-production co-existance of D caps that differed from a frontal view point and as far as we know, a hybrid version has never surfaced in the later style with the early retention clips. I would venture a guess that the decision was made before production began, to exhaust the supply of "early" D caps before running the new improved version. The problem of the wheel flex and caps falling off was likely known early on. I doubt any official record survives of what transpired. I agree, information collected from original owners who still have their original caps would be sporatic at best, but unless documentation is found, or a credible first hand account is given, it's all speculation otherwise.

This may help. Below is a scanned page from 1970 Australian Motor Magazine which road tested the first 240Z in early 1970. The picture shows the valve stem below the D in line with one of the spokes.

Warren

geezer, what a great find it is, and I too, looked and found odd thing and I was going to post my finding but, you are the first.

Please look this picture from NISSAN officialy provided.This red car has odd caps.

And my caps given from Mr.Matsuo and Nov 1969 Tokyo motor show 240Z (Thank you Alan) has normal early caps.

kats

Edited December 6, 200816 yr by kats

My logic would be to make an assumption of around July of 1970, a transition from 1970 to 1971 model years, when early D caps were replaced by later D caps, but with no real proof.

Dan

If the set of early D caps I bought were actually original to the four 11/70 steel wheels that they came with, then early caps could have been correct up to the end of the series 1 production.

Dan

Hi Dan and all.

I have a set of 4 "D" hubcaps and steelies that I purchased used several years ago. The wheels are coded 4/71 and 5/71. Two of the hubcaps have the valve stem opening below the D, the other two have the valve stem opening above the D. The seller was the original owner of a 1971 240-Z. He told me they were in service less than a year, then replaced by slots. I don't recall him saying anything about losing and replacing hubcaps.

Because of this, my assumption has been that there was some overlap of the two styles at the factory, where at some point both styles were employed simultaneously, perhaps even on the same car. My hubcaps, like the set in the ebay auction, are not a matched set, but they may have left the factory paired up in this fashion.

Gary S.

Edited December 6, 200816 yr by 7T1240

Hi Dan and all.

The wheels are coded 4/71 and 5/71. Two of the hubcaps have the valve stem opening below the D, the other two have the valve stem opening above the D. The seller was the original owner of a 1970 240-Z.

If the wheels are date coded 4/71 and 5/71 wouldn't they have come from a 1971 240z?

-Mike

Edited December 6, 200816 yr by Mike B