Thinking of picking up a euro points dizzy from MSA

[Goose52]

It looks to me like they are both stamped D606-52, which is the Hitachi model number for the Euro distributor.

-Mike

Mike - I was looking at the 3/4 digit number under the D606-52, which I thought was a continuance of the part number - guess not huh !

[jmortensen]

well though lots of waiting, I finally got my hand on a used euro dizzy for my 240Z. I plan to have it rebuilt prior to installing. I plan on using these people...

http://www.advanceddistributors.com/

They will rework the curves if I want to but I think I am going to keep it exactly stock and just get it cleaned, rebushed, and ready to install my pertronix on it. I may even get a new pertronix so I have a complete spare.

I will snap some pictures of the new unit before and after rebuild.

Currently my stock 1971 240Z dizzy has these stats:

Static 5 Degrees

Centrifugal 24 Degrees

Vacuum 18 Degrees

The euro dizzy looks more like this

Stock 17 Degrees

Centrifugal 12 Degrees

Vacuum 11 Degrees

I plan to use the OEM US vacuum advance module on the new european dizzy. I will give my impressions as this goes on.

17 at idle works really well, but adding only 12 mechanical means that when you floor it and don't have a lot of vacuum you'll be running 29 degrees total, which is less than you should for max hp. 11 vacuum is not really wanted for max power - if you set the distributor to give you total in the mid 30s or so, on the top end of a WOT run the vacuum can start coming back up, which advances timing further, potentially causing pre-ignition when you want it least.

I would suggest that you open the slots up a little bit on the Euro or close them up a bit on the stocker to get more like 18-20 total mechanical advance. That would give you mid 30s and then you could get rid of the vacuum advance entirely.

Alternatively a 280ZX distributor has 17 or 18 degrees of mech advance, depending on manual or automatic transmission. It also has all advance in by 2500 which is about what you want. Not sure when the stocker is all in.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

why not use the euro vacume advance? would it be bad to have the vacume advance to 18 degrees?

I do not think it would be bad, but I am pretty sure that is the original vacuum advance, and I would wager that it is probably leaky. I do not see any reason a US vacuum advance would not work, but if the plate inside is limited to 11 degrees, then 11 degrees is all I am going to get.

I will have to see. I need to clean it up a bit.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

mortensen, I will see if I can ask the fellows at advanced distributors to do just that. I can ask for any setting I want, and they will make it happen. If I keep the static timing at 17 degrees and make the centrifugal advance more like 17-19 versus 12, then that would put me into the mid thirties like you mention and I could run without a VA.

By your opinion then you think that if I were fully advanced by 2500-2700 rpm it would be a sweet spot for my stock L24 with headers and exhaust.

I was just going to let them refub it and put a new pertronix in, I had not thought about recurving it. Very interesting thoughts though.

[jmortensen]

mortensen, I will see if I can ask the fellows at advanced distributors to do just that. I can ask for any setting I want, and they will make it happen. If I keep the static timing at 17 degrees and make the centrifugal advance more like 17-19 versus 12, then that would put me into the mid thirties like you mention and I could run without a VA.

By your opinion then you think that if I were fully advanced by 2500-2700 rpm it would be a sweet spot for my stock L24 with headers and exhaust.

I was just going to let them refub it and put a new pertronix in, I had not thought about recurving it. Very interesting thoughts though.

I've never actually dynoed it out to see exactly what is going to give THE best performance, but if you read enough you'll see that most guys tuning on the dyno end up somewhere between 32 and 38 degrees total. You can adjust the weight of the springs on the centrifugal weights to change when it hits that full advance and then dyno a bunch to find out what is exactly the best. I was never to the point where I didn't feel that I could get more power from some other mod more easily so I never took the time, but that's how you would really dial it in. It's a lot easier if you just go to DIS, then you can just adjust the computer controls and do another pull instead of having to disassemble the distributor and modify between dyno runs.

I'm not sure how fragile the 240 vacuum advance mechanism is, but the 280ZX is nearly always broken when I come across it and when it breaks it can allow parts inside to tip and hit each other, not good at all. Plus if you hit a certain vibration I always worried about it moving on its own accord. For those reasons I'd suggest physically locking it so that it can't move. Screw it down, JB weld it, braze it, something, but if you're going to not use it I would make sure that it can't move at all.

[Shade133]

I do not think it would be bad, but I am pretty sure that is the original vacuum advance, and I would wager that it is probably leaky. I do not see any reason a US vacuum advance would not work, but if the plate inside is limited to 11 degrees, then 11 degrees is all I am going to get.

I will have to see. I need to clean it up a bit.

ok well let me know what you find out!!!

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Just an update. I talked to the fellow this week about my dizzy rebuild. He is getting it on his bench before the end of the week and he will tell me what the euro dizzy is up to. I am looking forward to dropping that baby in there and running some aggressive advance curves.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Just got back my Dizzy from Advanced Distributors. It looks brand new. I am very happy with the appearance. I just need to put my old pertronix into this new distributor. The gentlemen at Advanced set me up to run 14 degrees static advance, and it should advance 22 degrees centrifugal. He wanted me to try to run it without a V/A. I will post pictures in a few.

[gnosez]

I believe the last numbers I saw for my euro dizzy, Pertonix and MSD 6AL were in the 32-34 range (total) above 3,000rpm. I've run this combo for 9 yrs now with no problems whatsoever.

[Travel'n Man]

Great thread guys - this is good stuff.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

I believe the last numbers I saw for my euro dizzy, Pertonix and MSD 6AL were in the 32-34 range (total) above 3,000rpm. I've run this combo for 9 yrs now with no problems whatsoever.

Sounds like we are in the exact same ball park. W/O the vacuum advance I should be looking at 36 degrees. Which is about right I would think for a stock L24 with headers...

BEFORE

AFTER

Edited September 9, 2010 by Zedyone_kenobi

[Zedyone_kenobi]

UPDATE:

I installed my new european dizzy with the custom timing curves. Advanced distributors did a remarkable job as far as I can tell. They instructions were as follows.

Set static timing at idle at 14 degrees BTDC

The dizzy now has 22 degrees of centrifugal advance

He told me to try to run without a Vacuum Advance at first. So I Plugged it up.

Funny thing. While I had both dizzys out, I hooked up my MityVac to my stock vacuum advance, and again to the european vacuum advance. They both held vacuum solidly, and they both moved, but the American VA moved about twice as much until it hit a hard stop. So I thought that both would be the same. If I decide to run a VA I am going to put the european one in as it moves far less.

I got the car timed to 14 BTDC, and tightened the fast idle screw until I reached maximum advance. I reach 37 degrees at around 3100 rpm roughly, give or take 100 rpm.

Car idles very smoothly and has no issues stating up with so much advance. Car seems to respond to throttle a bit better, but it is too soon to tell. It definitely pulls better above 5000 rpm. I am going to leave the VA disconnected for now, but may hook up the european one to see if things get even better.