The hardest part to find

[BryanM]

i get what you mean Unkle. i don't neccessarily disagree, but i didn't (and don't think others who would take on something like this) take on some of these challenges to dupe judges. they fulfill a need for enthusiasts. from my view, it's pointless to reproduce something that's just o.k. for the throttle knob, well over 50 hours went into the initial production and mold. i made it numerous times before the fit and finish was right on the money. some of the first ones may have been acceptable, but i'm sort of stupid that way. i won't even get into how many hours i spent on the gas lid knob.

while i thank Jim for his compliments, and acknowledement of the time i spent in recreating the things i have, the bottom line is that a judge with a keen eye could tell the difference. (the chromed gas lid knob being the exception-that thing is freakin flawless) i won't elaborate. that's the judge's job:D

[Mike B]

Here is some relevant guidance from the National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS) regarding use of reproduction parts and it is consistent with my opinions. Source - http://www.ncrs.org/awards.html.

DEFINITIONS OF COUNTERFEIT vs. RESTORATION

NCRS does not consider the restoration or replacement of components as counterfeit as long as the intent is to restore the car to its former or original state as it left the factory.

To make this perfectly clear, read the following definitions from Webster's Dictionary and the accompanying examples.

RESTORE:

"To renew; to put back into existence or bring back to a former or original state".

For instance, the following examples represent restorations and are not considered counterfeiting:

-Repainting an original black Corvette with black lacquer paint.

-Installing accurately reproduced black vinyl seat covers in a car that left the factory with a standard black interior.

COUNTERFEIT:

"To make an imitation of something else with the intent to deceive or defraud".

For instance, the following would be examples of counterfeiting:

-Repainting an original blue car red and changing the trim tag to make red appear to be the original color.

-Installing a red interior in a car that left the factory with a blue interior and changing the trim tag to make red appear to be the original color interior.

-Replacing the engine of an original small block Corvette with a big block and stamping numbers on it to make it appear to be an original big block engine.

-Replacing the carburetor on an engine with a fuel injection unit and stamping the numbers and suffix code on the block to make it appear to be original.

[Unkle]

Correct , in as much research as you did ! My point , again and again, is : the use of ''copied '' rare , early parts to pass off as the real deal in a show or sale just strikes me wrong . Not regular, everyday parts that are in general acceptance such as steel body panels , lights , repro stickers, decals etc. This is how all of this started , the original thread titler suggests that he needs in his mind the ''holy grail'' sp? , an original hand throttle knob . Suddenly weeks later there seems to be many available , not counting the ones found in Japan, which seem original. If you think you can show up in a corvette loaded with extremely rare but repro , perhaps optional parts ,your car will bescrutinized better than a VW bus crossing the border with a bong as an exaust tip.

[Mike B]

Unkle,

I still don't agree with you on this, so maybe we just need to "agree to disagree". You go back to the original post about the throttle knob and that reproduction parts will be "passed off as the real deal" in a show. To be correct, no car that was sold in the US should have a throttle lever at all ...they were all supposed to be removed before being delivered, due to US laws, so someone would need to prove that a throttle was delivered with their car (with photos or some other documentation that their car somehow slipped by with it). Two of my low VIN cars had evidence that the throttles were removed - they still had the small plastic grommet in the notch at the top of the accelerator pedal. I purchased and reinstalled a used throttle set up in one car (HLS30-00032). If I go to a national car show, I would expect to get dinged for that whether I have a Nissan knob or a reproduction. Heck, by the current rules, I would have to strip off the dealer installed 240z stripe from a car or get dinged, let alone show up with a throttle control!!

So back to your problem with using reproduction early parts... If a part is indistinguishable from an original part, who cares (except you I guess)? If a judge can't tell the difference on close inspection, why should someone be dinged for having an excellent reproduction? Because they didn't spend as much as someone who bought a NOS or used part on ebay? The reason people make the reproductions is to have a part that is not available any other way and to improve the quality of all of our cars by making more of them as restored with the correct parts as possible (see definition above). They are not to try to put one over on someone. I don't see how the example of the reproduction seat covers above is any different than a reproduction red dot mirror knob for a car that should have one. If you have done more "research" into NCRS rules regarding use of reproduction parts, please share with the rest of us.

-Mike

[26th-Z]

I guess I was off-comment a tad and I didn’t mean to offend anyone. There is nothing wrong with reproducing a part or refinishing a piece. That’s what restoration is all about. The guy who spends all kinds of time and money to find a correct original is just restoring his project the same as the guy who spends the same restoring or reproducing his. In certain cases, restoring an original is far more expensive than replacing it even with a reproduction. What has me concerned is the faithfulness of the reproduction and how it is used. In the case of my last comment, how it is used. You see, in twenty or thirty years when we are all sitting around in the nursing home and we have nothing better to do than compare knobs, no one is going to remember who has the actual authentic correct knob. Or worse yet, they are going to try to convince me that their knob belongs in a place it never really was.

[onuthin]

This is how all of this started , the original thread titler suggests that he needs in his mind the ''holy grail'' sp? , an original hand throttle knob . Suddenly weeks later there seems to be many available , not counting the ones found in Japan, which seem original.

What is is real funny is how my search for this '' Holy Grail ''took so many turns after I posted it.I noticed my Z s/n 103855 or close to that had the whole throttle assy except the lever and knob. everything else was there.since 95% of the car is original, and I came across the lever mechanism I thought it would be nice to find the correct throttle knob for that year.I have the square one but what the hell,why not try to find the correct one.I don't care if it is a reproduction or not. After looking so long I made it a quest to find one no matter what.I offered my kingdom for a horse just to prove I could find one.I doubt this Z will ever end up in a show but to me I just wanted it to be close. Maybe 000913 one day will but that is another story.I have gotten a lot of PM's about where I could get one,and have alread paid for 2 of them.I believe they exist but as of this reply the only knob in my hand right now is not a choke or throttle knob.

[Unkle]

Mike , these parts most certainly left the factory attached to the cars ! So what if they were suposed to be removed by Datsun on the '' other side " !

Here's a scenario : July 2009 , nice summer day at a Datsun car show. Everybody knows each other ( small town ). 35 cars + trucks in various forms , some perfect, some not , like your typical show . The guys suddenly seem to gravitate to a newcomer . Great paint , low vin, all the earmarks . The interior reveals every early part from grey dash / console panels , hand throttle assembly, etc. The exterior shows the 3 light taillight housings, the chrome 'z' sail panel badges , clear hatch glass , it's all there ! Vin # 19 seems to be reborn ! It's for sale , and 2 buyers are very interested. The seller then says : this is a ''tribute'' car as all of these parts are reproductions , accurate to perfection exept one thing : it's a fake made to look like the real thing. And, he has every part of this car in multiples for sale . (end of story ). I don't know about you but this to me this would now always make me wonder : Is it real ? Anything ''early'' for sale , whether on Ebay or at a Datsun swap meet : is it fake ? Things that make you go ''hmmm''. :paranoid:

Oh , Mike , there's a big piece of land North of you that may or may not have complied with the ''U.S.'' laws of the day .

Edited March 14, 2009 by Unkle
because

[BryanM]

personally i'd say "someone went through alot of trouble to make sure these parts are right"

...and i know you description is hypothetical, but here is #19

and no it's not mine, so you have nothing to worry about

Edited March 14, 2009 by BryanM

[Zup]

Many, many thanks to Bryan and Jim for making this part of "unobtainium" obtainable. :classic:

It is perfect in every way!

I am very happy and will gladly tell anyone that asks of Mr. Martin's skill at reproduction parts.

Nothing to hide here, just as close as it get's to "original".

Now, if someone would make some reproduction carpet clips I'd order 4 sets in a heartbeat!

Jim D.

"Zup"

[geezer]

Now, if someone would make some reproduction carpet clips I'd order 4 sets in a heartbeat!

You would need to weld in the retainers also. They weren't used until 1972 beginning SN HLS30-77533. The clip itself must be made of spring steel? That would make it more difficult to reproduce, but someone here might be up for it.

[Arne]

You would need to weld in the retainers also. They weren't used until 1972 beginning SN HLS30-77533. The clip itself must be made of spring steel? That would make it more difficult to reproduce, but someone here might be up for it.

My car has the carpet retainers, always has, apparently. Nice red paint and covered in the factory's spray adhesive just like everything else in that area. HLS30-37702, 7/71...

[geezer]

My car has the carpet retainers, always has, apparently. Nice red paint and covered in the factory's spray adhesive just like everything else in that area. HLS30-37702, 7/71...

Hmmm, maybe one of those Nissan time warp anomalies. I pulled that info from Technical Bulletin-TS72-56 issued June 13, 1972. Maybe I'm interpreting the bulletin wrong? Could it mean that previous to HLS30-77533 they came from the factory installed already?

Edited March 14, 2009 by geezer
Typed wrong number