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Let's show vintage racing pictures. I'll start.

conedodger
conedodger
in RACING

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comment_589535
29 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

In your last picture above, the yellow car is not behind the Daytona but between Morton and the Mustang.

That's because Morton had just driven into it! The clue is the fact that it is facing the wrong way and has a big chunk of its RH rear quarter missing...

None of your analysis seems to take the infield-spinning car and/or the slowing green car into account. I'll say it again, Morton is attempting an overly optimistic pass of the yellow Chevron in the middle of an unfolding incident where other cars are taking avoiding action. That's brain fade, not brake fade. 

I don't get your 'keep in line' comments. If everyone had to keep in line and/or stay parallel to other cars, what was the green flag for? They are in race mode, not formation lap mode, as proved by Morton passing at least four cars between the green flag and the middle of turn one whilst moving from the inside to the outside of the track. 

 


comment_589642
On 12/18/2019 at 11:46 PM, HS30-H said:

That's because Morton had just driven into it! The clue is the fact that it is facing the wrong way and has a big chunk of its RH rear quarter missing...

None of your analysis seems to take the infield-spinning car and/or the slowing green car into account. I'll say it again, Morton is attempting an overly optimistic pass of the yellow Chevron in the middle of an unfolding incident where other cars are taking avoiding action. That's brain fade, not brake fade. 

I don't get your 'keep in line' comments. If everyone had to keep in line and/or stay parallel to other cars, what was the green flag for? They are in race mode, not formation lap mode, as proved by Morton passing at least four cars between the green flag and the middle of turn one whilst moving from the inside to the outside of the track. 

 

Your're just pissed because Morton passed a couple of P.orkers . What the Chevron was faced with is irrelevant, if you want to change your line then you give way, it's that simple. But if we have to get verbose then Morton had enough open track in front of him and was driving accordingly, it was the Chevron which without taking account of Morton created an inevitable collision situation. Morton was racing as he should have been, it's not up to him to observe everything that's going on and then try to anticipate what may or may not happen. You take care of what is relevant to you and get on with the job.

Racing is selfish, it's not like cruising in a road car where consideration of others is good.

comment_589643
1 hour ago, 260DET said:

 it's not up to him to observe everything that's going on and then try to anticipate what may or may not happen. You take care of what is relevant to you and get on with the job.

Racing is selfish, it's not like cruising in a road car where consideration of others is good.

It IS very much up to EVERY racer to try to observe everything that is going on and try to anticipate what might happen.  This is not always possible as blind spots get in the way, lighting conditions may interfere, or following closely may block your vision.  This makes racing challenging and is part of the excitement .  Prudence can aide in your anticipation but too much results in one moving backwards in the field.  Remember too, however that this was a vintage race which requires more prudence than SCCA, NASA or pro racing etc.  To me this was a tough one to call.  I am not pointing any fingers as I‘ve made many mistakes on track, but to point squarely at the Chevron driver who was avoiding a slew of target threats during a volatile  situation might be a little judgmental.

Edited by coop
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    • Like 1
    comment_589647
    2 hours ago, 260DET said:

    Your're just pissed because Morton passed a couple of P.orkers . What the Chevron was faced with is irrelevant, if you want to change your line then you give way, it's that simple. But if we have to get verbose then Morton had enough open track in front of him and was driving accordingly, it was the Chevron which without taking account of Morton created an inevitable collision situation. Morton was racing as he should have been, it's not up to him to observe everything that's going on and then try to anticipate what may or may not happen. You take care of what is relevant to you and get on with the job.

    Racing is selfish, it's not like cruising in a road car where consideration of others is good.

    I must say it's a real privilege to have the input of veteran racecar driver Crashy McCrashface on the thread. Slightly late to the start line (comfort break?) but at least you got here before everyone else went home.

    However, all that 'contact with the barriers' over the years might just have degraded the old grey matter somewhat. Because this:

    2 hours ago, 260DET said:

    What the Chevron was faced with is irrelevant, if you want to change your line then you give way, it's that simple.

    ...doesn't quite match up with this:

    2 hours ago, 260DET said:

    Racing is selfish, it's not like cruising in a road car where consideration of others is good.

    And this:

    2 hours ago, 260DET said:

    Morton was racing as he should have been, it's not up to him to observe everything that's going on and then try to anticipate what may or may not happen. You take care of what is relevant to you and get on with the job.

    ...doesn't seem to apply if you happen to be driving a yellow Chevron. LOL

     

    comment_589661

    Here's the Chevron from a driver's perspective, for reference. Not Johnson's in-car, but it's probably around somewhere.

    https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/video/video-driving-acdcs-brian-johnsons-chevron-b8-daytona

    comment_589980
    On 12/20/2019 at 6:02 PM, coop said:

    It IS very much up to EVERY racer to try to observe everything that is going on and try to anticipate what might happen.  This is not always possible as blind spots get in the way, lighting conditions may interfere, or following closely may block your vision.  This makes racing challenging and is part of the excitement .  Prudence can aide in your anticipation but too much results in one moving backwards in the field.  Remember too, however that this was a vintage race which requires more prudence than SCCA, NASA or pro racing etc.  To me this was a tough one to call.  I am not pointing any fingers as I‘ve made many mistakes on track, but to point squarely at the Chevron driver who was avoiding a slew of target threats during a volatile  situation might be a little judgmental.

    Obviously I'm referring to the situation at hand, I'm not here to lay down general rules so I stand by what I said. If every driver did "take care of what is relevant to you and get on with the job" then the situation here could well have had a better result. But what happened here began with a unthinking reflex response by one driver that escalated to involve Morton. Yet he is to blame?

    comment_589986
    4 hours ago, 260DET said:

    Obviously I'm referring to the situation at hand, I'm not here to lay down general rules so I stand by what I said. If every driver did "take care of what is relevant to you and get on with the job" then the situation here could well have had a better result. But what happened here began with a unthinking reflex response by one driver that escalated to involve Morton. Yet he is to blame?

    You don't seem to have taken into account the significance of the incident(s) unfolding in turn one and beyond.

    Something you apparently have in common with Mr Morton LOL

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