Let's show vintage racing pictures. I'll start.

[hls30.com]

Come on guys, Alan is right about this being an international forum, all opinion, experience, and history are welcome, and the perspective from other parts of the world are a valid and necessary part of Z history. Between them Carl and Alan have a wealth on Z information that sould not be discounted. Carl has the USA experience, Alan has the UK experience-these were two different markets handled by Nissan two different ways, please look at both and realize the value in both! Neglecting or dismissing any viewpoint means you will probably miss something. Both put diamonds in the threads, and are strong willed, thick skinned and deserving of your respect. Look at the discussions they get into and realize the tectonic action between them will bring more diamonds to the surface than any calm presentation! Read what they post and draw your own conclusions.

Will

Edited March 4, 2009 by hls30.com

[Ron Carter]

Kronoss,

Those photos would be from 1971 at Road Atlanta.

[conedodger]

My conclusion, is that Alan was being rude. I have not visited either website nor examined the validity of the argument. I am actually, in this regard, unconcerned with the difference of opinion. But, as it is a thread that I started, I would prefer he not be rude or condescending in the presentation of his point.

As for this being a Carl Beck Fan Club... My goodness! Carl gets no pass here. If he were being rude I would have asked him to tone it down as well... As it is, if Carl could be called rude it would be for ignoring Alan.

I just want the truth to be sought out without acrimony.

Now once again, Alan - what is your point? What is the problem that is so great that you feel the need to be rude? Further, why is it so important to you?

[conedodger]

'conedodger',

Thanks for your advice. Nice of "Academia" to come and pay me a personal visit, and useful to know that "....the English argue differently" when posting on what is actually an international forum.

I'm afraid I shall be sticking with my opinion ( obviously differing from yours ), and I think that's healthy as far as this forum goes. Otherwise we might as well rename it the 'Carl Beck Fan Club' and let it become the replacement for his dearly departed Mailing List, in which he was able to edit all posts before they even hit the screen.

I see you are damning the racingsportscars.com site too. Quite extraordinary. You and Mr B. could be two peas in a pod. If the data on the ex-Speakman car at zhome.com was originally right, then why has it now been "updated"? And if what is written on that page now ( implying that the Doyle, Speakman & Maffucci 16th O/A finish in 1978 was the first finish for a 240Z at the Daytona 24hrs ) is correct, then please post your evidence to prove that the other cars we have mentioned don't count.

And if you have any other 'advice' for me on how to deal with your friends, then please send it to me by PM.

Thanks.

Alan,

You are apparently English? I fail to see that the fact that the website is International has anything to do with the cultural traits of the English. You are writing in a conversational tone and frankly being rude. At first I thought I was mistaking your conversational tone with cultural trait but it is pretty apparent that it is just you.

Your reference to the IZCC mailing list and allegation that Carl edited posts before they hit the screen reveals some prior problem with Carl.

I still don't know or understand your point of view and as I said, I want to but your point gets lost in your tone. For instance "would it help if somebody explained it to you?" This post implies that you think Carl is stupid. Are you being rude, or do you actually want to tell us that you think Carl is stupid?

[conedodger]

Now my 914 friends think this picture might have been taken at the HSR Mitty in 2007. A Frank Beck driving the 914 and Tom Trabue driving the Z...

These are some great shots of Brad Frisselle's Z! It just happens that I live in Northern California not far from a shop that generally restores and races vintage race cars... Bruce Cannepa is known for the Porsche cars he does but I noticed on his website that he is selling the restored Frizzelle car. Interesting to note for those of you who like to argue history, Bruce claims this to be the first chassis imported to the United States. Yes? No? Let the fur fly! http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/7313/index.html

My Porsche friends think the 914 might be Adrian Gang but no one is sure... Anyone here have access to old car numbers from the day? I am assuming based on the Kitty Litter that is Road Atlanta. What corner? Is this picture below from the 70's or from a vintage race later on?

[26th-Z]

The picture was taken at the Mitty, correct. Ron, you beat me to it. Those are fantastic pictures of the ARRC in 1971. Thanks for the link to the ad. Those are great pictures of the restored Frisselle car.

[HS30-H]

Now once again, Alan - what is your point? What is the problem that is so great that you feel the need to be rude? Further, why is it so important to you?

conedodger,

You seem to be determined to carry this on, and you appear to be focussed more on this question of who is - or is not - being "rude" than on understanding the real problem ( bad data ).

Perhaps you might find a little enlightenment if you spent some time looking at the archives here, with the emphasis on exchanges that have been taking place since around 2002 ( six years or so before you joined ). I don't think you'll make a very good referee for a virtual boxing match if you only get into the ring in the eleventh round.

You are apparently English? I fail to see that the fact that the website is International has anything to do with the cultural traits of the English.

Let me remind you that you brought the question of my nationality up, sir. Only you will really know your intentions in doing so. But having brought that subject up, you now question its relevance? Where exactly were you trying to go with that?

Now once again, Alan - what is your point? What is the problem that is so great that you feel the need to be rude? Further, why is it so important to you?

If you don't see it now then I don't know how I can make it any more clear to you. The data on the zhome.com page in question was plain wrong. The author ignores queries as to its accuracy, and instead calls into question the accuracy of a website that is far more specialised in the subject than his own. Then the data on zhome.com is "updated" - but it is still misleading. Call this to the author's attention and people seem more interested in questioning the intentions of the person bringing the matter up than in making sure the data is correct and reliable.

Why is "it" so important to me? Are you kidding? You mention that you work in "Academia" ( congratulations ) and then you want me to explain to you why accurate and reliable data is important........? Quite extraordinary.

[carguyinok]

I understand the fight going on here and think it's a valid fight that could go on another 6 years easy. I am not about to join in on any of that. Been there done that and know better.

BUT, is there any chance that we could get it going in it's own post? This was a post for racing photos of the past. Now there are pages of text with a few pics here and there.

[conedodger]

I think I have found my own solution...

[HS30-H]

......I CONSULTED A KINDERGARDEN TEACHER......

You should have consulted a Kindergarten teacher. Then you would have got the right answer.

[Steve Parmley]

Alan, I admire your relentless quest for historical fact. Rob, I admire your desire to argue as gentlemen. Now as my wife who is a school teacher would say, "A gold star for both of you". I wish I was an Admin so I could impose the "boobs thread law". If you don't post a picture, don't post.

[hls30.com]

Alan, I admire your relentless quest for historical fact. Rob, I admire your desire to argue as gentlemen. Now as my wife who is a school teacher would say, "A gold star for both of you". I wish I was an Admin so I could impose the "boobs thread law". If you don't post a picture, don't post.

You said this then you didn't post a pic...

Here is mine...

I agree, back to the initial focus of the thread...and its excellent intentions!

Will

Ps, I can't post anymore-I have no pictures....

Edited March 4, 2009 by hls30.com