which to buy

[mantastical]

oh Enigma forgot but the 260z isn't original motor. it has a 240z head and su carbs. the 240z is stock and all original.

[=Enigma=]

Well the head cound be either an E31 or an E88. The E31 is more valuable and offers higher compression. It came on and came on early 69/70 240Zs. The E88 supposedly came in two flavors. I thinkthe one on the 260z had a largeer exhaust valve but I haven't been able to confirm that myself. Here's a good read on the different heads.

http://datsunzgarage.com/heads/

[Carl Beck]

Here's a good read on the different heads.

http://datsunzgarage.com/heads/

I have to respectfully disagree. I think there are too many errors there.

The E31 is an uncommon, desirable head that came on many 1970 240's. It's chambers were high-quench designs, however the valves were smaller than the 260 and 280 heads. Probably about 10,000 were made. After 37 years, most of them are long gone having been over-collected and used up in racing. 42cc chambers I believe.

Wrong. The E31's came on all 69, 70 and 71 240Z's in North America. That would mean that there were about 46,000 Z's equipped with the E31. They were used for racing by BSR and BRE in 70/71, but both switched to the E88 heads when they came out. The E-88's had better flow through the intake/exhaust ports, and a slight milling brought the compression back up. The E88's also had better castings, as the E31's tended to crack around the exhaust valves. 42.4 cc combustion chambers, with 42mm intake and 33mm exhaust valves.

The E88 came on the 1971-73 240s and '74 260s, in 2 versions, small valve on the 240 and larger valve on the 260. It's chambers are the same cc size as later N42 and 47 heads. Despite what some older books say, I can't see why the E88 would have any performance advantage over any other head.

Wrong - There are at least four different heads that carry the E88 casting number.

1. The E88's started showing up on the last of the Series II 240Z's. Although carrying the E88 casting numbers, they still had the smaller combustion chambers of the previous E31's ie. 42.4 cc

2. The E88's that were standard on the 1972 Model Year or Series III 240-Z's. These had the same combustion chamber design as the E31 and early E88's... only increased to 44.7cc

3. The E88's that were standard on the 1973 Model Year or Series IV 240-Z's. These were emissions heads. The combustion chamber design was changed to improve emissions control, and the size was increased to 47.8cc. This is not a good performance head.. and it is difficult to rework to make it good.

4. The E88's that were standard on the 1974 Model Year 260Z. These were the same combustion chamber as the 73's but with a larger 35mm exhaust valve.

I believe that these are better references:

http://ZHome.com/ZCMnL/tech/128combo.html

and

http://ZHome.com/ZCMnL/tech/head.htm

and

http://ZHome.com/ZCMnL/tech/E31andE88Heads.htm

FWIW,

Carl B.

[=Enigma=]

Wow, thanks for the heads-up Carl. I guess I shouldn't be so trusting that a particular source is accurate. When I see that much information and level of detail, it's easy to assume that someone knows what they are talking about.

One item of note; the first link you provided makes no mention of more than one E88 design and references only the later E88 w/44.7 cc combustion chamber. It also references an N33 head with a mfg date of 8/72 - 7/73. What the hell is that? I thought the N33 number was only used for an intake manifold! Is this accurate? My Z is a one owner 4/73 with an E88 head, and according to the PO the only thing done to the engine was a swap out of the flat tops. Now I'm really confused.......but that's part of what makes these cars so fun.

Edited February 26, 2009 by =Enigma=

[Arne]

I'll add a clarification - the E88 (earliest version) was used earlier than Carl makes it sound. My '71 (#37705, 7/71) has the first version E88. (The head has never been off the engine. Definitely original.) The 4/71 car I parted out (#27602) had an E31. So production changed somewhere between those two. Which would seem to indicate that there weren't 46,000 E31 equipped 240Zs. Probably more like 30-35,000.

[Carl Beck]

Hi Arne:

I'll bet your original engine serial number is close to 46,000 - right/wrong?

Let me know so I can add it to the data base...

thanks,

Carl

[Carl Beck]

One item of note; the first link you provided makes no mention of more than one E88 design and references only the later E88 w/44.7 cc combustion chamber. It also references an N33 head with a mfg date of 8/72 - 7/73. What the hell is that? I thought the N33 number was only used for an intake manifold! Is this accurate? My Z is a one owner 4/73 with an E88 head, and according to the PO the only thing done to the engine was a swap out of the flat tops. Now I'm really confused.......but that's part of what makes these cars so fun.

I believe that Jim Wolf used the first part of the Nissan Part Numbers, to show the different heads.. so in that first reference The E88, N33,N33/P50 are part numbers that all carry a CASTING NUMBER of E88.

11041-E3100 Assy-Cylinder Head up to 08/71

11041-E8800 from 9/71 up to 05/72

11041-N3300 from 7/72

11041-P5003 L26 from 08/73

I should add a note to that chart...

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Arne]

Hi Arne:

I'll bet your original engine serial number is close to 46,000 - right/wrong?

Let me know so I can add it to the data base...

thanks,

Carl

Ahh, I was thinking cars, not engines. My bad. My engine is over 46,000 - 48336 to be exact.

And the car is already in your directory.

[Carl Beck]

Wow, thanks for the heads-up Carl. I guess I shouldn't be so trusting that a particular source is accurate. When I see that much information and level of detail, it's easy to assume that someone knows what they are talking about.

Overall - Brian has done a great job with his web site - documenting what he's found and sharing what he has learned. The drawback is that he hasn't really flushed the information out on a public forum. Usually it's close enough for discussion purposes...

If I had to guess - I'd guess he got that 10,000 number confused with the 2400 OHC valve covers...

My 46,000 number was off the top of my head, based on Nissan saying that the 72 Production started at HLS30 46000 - - but then I knew better than that - - I have 72 Model year cars on my list with VIN's in the 4300 series.. As you can see - the advantage here is that someone, Arne in this case, is quick to add/correct any data they see as misleading or outright wrong...

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

Ahh, I was thinking cars, not engines. My bad.

Hi Arne:

No - you are correct. I did say "cars" in North America - and in that case the number would have been closer to 36000..

My engine is over 46,000 - 48336 to be exact.

And the car is already in your directory.

I should have checked the On-line Register... :stupid:

I was looking at my personal data base, that is supposed to include the on-line Register, but has about three times as many cars listed - some people that didn't want the info made public, some info gathered by people other than the actual owners, some gathered from on-line discussions etc etc.

thanks for the input..

Carl B.

[ChrisZ]

Below is a picture of a E88 i unfurtunatly didn't buy, and the price was just right.

Chris

[mantastical]

alright i have a new option. instead of the 260 there is a 75 280z on renos craiagslist for 4000. i couldn't put link cause i'm on my iphone and not sure how to add link. well the 280 is in way better condition and i can get it for 3500. my concern with this car is the smog issue since its out of state. does anyone know if i were to buy this car and register in ca would i need to smog?thanks everyone in advance