Front frame repair

[hogie]

This was supposedly done professionally. I finally got around to checking out the undercoating on the front frame rails. After I dug around a bit I found some pop riveted plates. After popping those off I found they filled the holes with great stuff.

On the inside edge of the frame rails is a big peice of angle iron bolted through at the engine cradle, sway bars, and at the back edge.

After pulling out the foam it looks like the inside edge of the frame is relatively sound. Also, ahead of and behind the hole feels quite solid. If I can weld the inside frame rails to the angle iron and the plate the outside with 1/8 inch steal would this be an acceptable fix? I am not looking the replace these rails unless I have too.

I have heard that bigdog has front frame rails, but all I have seen is the under floor and rear sections.

Please check out these pics and let me know what you think.

This is the angle iron reinforcing the rails.

Edited June 7, 2009 by hogie

[shamus1980]

You didn't take all the foam out did you?! That's a structural part of the car!

But seriously sorry to see the state of those rails. Although it's a fair bit of work I'd replace the rails. They're fairly basic items and there's no complex welding required just puddle/plug weld them on. All the work will be out of sight. Trying to weld a plate to rusty steel will also not produce very good welds. You'll only have to do the rails again if you don't do it properly or you'll always have that problem lurking in the back of your mind when you are trying to enjoy your zed. I did a dodgie job on a car I own and have never been happy with it since.

Besides think how bad they'll look when the next person discovers your patch job.

Best of luck.

Edited June 7, 2009 by shamus1980

[gnosez]

The only company that sells front rails is: ZeddFindings (www.datsunzparts.com).

Our frame rails (Bad Dog Parts) start at the TC rod box and go back under the seats.

[hogie]

I checked out the Zeddfindings frame rails and it looks like they only fix half of my problem.

Unless I am looking at this wrong, they look like the should be dome welding on my inside the engine bay. My damage is worse on the wheel well side. Also, it doesn't look like this has the mounting points for the main cross member.

I really don't have any intention of doing too shoddy of a repair...I am too far into this turd to half arss something. I am not afraid of welding it, but I am sure it will not be pretty either way.

If I move the jackstands back to the area behind the tension rods will it still be safe? I know the rails there are still sound.

http://www.datsunzparts.com/images/Floors/Front%20Frame%20Rails/Fr%20Frame%20Rail%20RS%20Inside.JPG

Edited June 7, 2009 by hogie

[a7dz]

Look at these albums they will show you how I did that repair.

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=1188

[hogie]

Perhaps I am looking in the wrong places, but it looks like your repairs were more over the tension rod mount/doubler. This is directly over the main crossmember mount.

What thickness of sheet metal did you use?

[John Coffey]

IMHO, strip the car of all the good parts, cut off any good body panels including the roof, and scrap the chassis. Find yourself another, clean chassis to build on.

[hogie]

Other than this section, the car is in quite good shape...if I was going to unload it, I am sure I would be better off trading it in on a cash for clunkers deal if that ever passes.

Parting it out is unlikely, though I do have a 280z shell that is in good shape, just no title.

<a href="http://s190.photobucket.com/albums/z82/wangchung_01/240z/?action=view&current=DSCF3661-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z82/wangchung_01/240z/DSCF3661-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Edited June 7, 2009 by hogie

[a7dz]

Look at the way I did the right repair under the battery and do the same up front. I used 16 GA sheet steel. I bent a lip on the bottom and welded it in place. I was careful to get the inner box rust cut out. If you were in the Northwest I would cut that one up and get a different car for a starting point.

[geezer]

I know the truth is sometimes hard to swallow, but I would not try to repair that rail. The other side is probably not in much better condition. I think you are looking at the tip of the iceberg here. At the very least a new set of front rails are needed and I suspect that will snowball into much more. You will have to evaluate for yourself, or if you feel you don't know what to look for, get someone experience to give it a thorough inspection. This is not to say it can't be saved. You will have to do the math and make the ultimate decision. My guess is you will be money ahead finding a solid replacement shell, not to mention the time saved. Just trying to give you an honest opinion. Is this type of work second nature to you? Are you are equipt to do it yourself? I suspect not or you wouldn't be asking for advise here. Best to cut your losses.

[hogie]

Every one seems to be quite the pessimist on here and at Hybridz! Here is why I am not so worried about it. I started at the back of the car and worked forward.....yes it was the wrong direction, but it is what it is.

1. Rear frame and floor boards are solid (I already fixed the half arsed floor pans and rails)

2. Really nice dash and corbeau seats, all new carpet

3. pretty nice paint, shaved rails, emblems, and door handles

4. And the motor is solid as far as I can tell.

5. The other side of the frame is in better condition.

All I have left to do on the car is fix these rails and screw around with the wiring. The expensive stuff is done. At this point in the process it doesnt make any sense to throw in the towel. I have some friends that are extremely good welders so I am sure we can come up with something that will work if not be overkill. I can weld, and have the tools to do it I was just looking to see if anyone thought my initial plan was workable.

Here is some proof of what we are capable of. Though I am sure it is not your thing, the president of my car club and I used to build competition hydraulic dancers. This is his truck and it holds up to some major abuse. Yes, i know it has a full frame as opposed to a unibody, but he is a darn good welder. I am not planning on paying anyone to fix it so the cost will just be in time spent and metal.

Southern Showdown 2008

Edited June 8, 2009 by hogie

[shamus1980]

My line of thought would be if you're thinking of scrapping it you won't be doing any harm trying to fix it first, especially if you've put a lot of work into the rest of the shell. If it were a jaguar or ferrari someone would fix it without batting an eyelid. Sure it won't be worth as much as a ferrari when finnished but it shouldn't cost you much more than your own time. The rails on zedfindings look good but if you need other parts there will be a sheetmetal place somewhere local that can fold you up something if you can take some good accurate measurements to them.

I would guess the existing steel would be 1.2mm (not sure what gauge that is). You could go 1.6 which would be very strong.

I've had floor rails and sill panels folded up locally for less than I can buy them for online so like you say if you can do the work yourself you're not out of pocket by too much and it will still be less work than starting a new shell.

Good luck.

Edited June 8, 2009 by shamus1980