Got an e-mail referencing an article in Machinist's Workshop magazine http://www.magazine-agent.com/machinists-workshop/magazine

I tried to look it up, but the site wants to see my cookies and as you all know Her Majesty doesn't show her cookies to just anyone. Anyhow, we have had several discussions about removing rusted bolts and rusted hardware. I can't seem to find any appropriate thread to tack this on to. Here is supposedly what was said in the article:

Machinist's Workshop Magazine recently tested penetrants for

break out torque on rusted nuts with significant results:

They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with

the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a

"scientifically rusted" environment.

Penetrating oil Average Torque to Remove Nut

> None ............ ......... . 516 pounds

> WD-40 ............ ........ 238 pounds

> PB Blaster ............ .. 214 pounds

> Liquid Wrench ........ 127 pounds

> Kano Kroil ............ ... 106 pounds

> ATF-Acetone mix...... .53 pounds

The ATF -Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix

of 50 - 50 Automatic Transmission Fluid and acetone.

>Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial

product in this one particular test.

My first thought was about mixing ATF fluid with acetone and the spontaneous combustion thing they taught us in grade school. I don't know if the two fluids are compatible to be stored in a container. Perhaps just mix enough up to use. I was surprised that Liquid Wrench scored higher than my favorite PB Blaster, however Kroil is seriously good. Evidently, Mouse Milk wasn't mentioned.

Hrmmm, doesn't acetone also break down a lot of different kinds of paint?

Something to think about at least. I'm not sure how the others are in that regard.

Thanks for the info, second post in as many days reminding me I need to buy more Kroil

I was looking at their site today and they also have a product called Silikroil, which is apparently Kroil with silicone added to it... Anyone tried it?

Hummm...... That must have been one large bolt, that the nut was rusted on!! 516 lbs/ft of torque would have twisted most bolts off in our cars long before reaching 516 lbs/ft

Of course one would really have to conduct that sort of test on many different tread types, and on bolts/nuts frozen due to more than just rust. The higher the torque applied to the bolt when it is put in, the more the treads distort and force themselves to be in contact surface face to surface face. Sometimes there is not "rust" at all involved, just surface contaminants imbedded in the threads and preventing them from releasing. Steel bolts in aluminum heads where water is running past them is never a good thing either.

At any rate - to this date Kroil has been the best penetrating oil I've ever found, for use in almost any situation. Expensive on a per can basis, but worth every penny as far as I am concerned.

I've never tried the Silikroil - mostly because Kroil Oil has always worked to begin with. Net time I place an order I may just give it a try..

FWIW,

Carl B.

Did they give the scenerio for the bolts? The only thin I can think of is to make an iron block with so many threaded holes in a line, screw the bolts in and put the whole thing in a salt-spray tester for a while. That should get the whole thing evenly rusted.

thxZ

It's interesting that it's a subjective test. Were they just going by feel when they recorded the torque(or load as several other forums have the article saying) ? BTW it's force * distance for torque.

Steve

My older brother and I were discussing this just last week. I mentioned Kroil (which I have not used and he has never heard of), and PBBlaster.

He said "Grampa made his own penatrating oil out of ATF and kerosene, or was it acetone?." He couldn't remember, but watched him make a batch when little. Kept it in the BLUE pump oil can. I did not know this. Worth a try. Grampa (1898-1970) self taught mechanic and machinist.

So maybe old school is now new school, or something lost has been found again. :bulb:

Bonzi Lon

Before anyone starts playing with acetone please read up on it beforehand. Back in the chemistry labs during my undergraduate studies anytime there was a minor explosion, it usually involved a first year student and acetone.

Also, check on storage requirements and the stuff evaporates quite quickly.

Other than that have fun...

I was looking at their site today and they also have a product called Silikroil, which is apparently Kroil with silicone added to it... Anyone tried it?

After you order once from Kroil you will get lots of mailings with 'specials' from them. A couple of weeks ago I got one that says the current special is Sili Kroil for the same price as regular Kroil (and get free shipping too). You can order by phone (866-388-1846) and ask for the "free silicone deal". It says 'Offer 425' on the bottom of the flyer if you need that.

-Mike

why don't they sell it in the regular outlets! I dont like to order things, then again I guess I shouldn't have got a Datsun since I feel that way

Hrmmm, doesn't acetone also break down a lot of different kinds of paint?

Something to think about at least. I'm not sure how the others are in that regard.

Yes it does. Take a look at a bottle of finger nail polish remover...acetone! Diluted of course, yet still very strong stuff. I reember playing with it in the chem lab, take a bit of nail polish remover and drop one of those packing peanuts in, rotate the container slowly around and around until the packing peanut has completely disolved and the acetone has evaporated...you now have a nice thin pink layer on the container (assuming your peanut was a pink one as it was in the lab to clearly illustrate this concept).

Any how, yes it will remove paint so use caution. Also head the other's warnings above...my experience with acetone is quite limited and it sounds as if others have more exposure to it and know more about what it is like to work with.

Thank you for the info, 50/50 ATF and acetone...good to know. Hmmm....I've been using PB Blaster and looking at these numbers I'm considering changing to something that works better.

I assume they used ordinary store-bought acetone?

I have been using Kroil for about 9 years now, and I have also used PB blaster. The Kroil is the best penetrating product I have ever used, and I have been working on cars for over 50 years. The Blaster is my second choice , however it smell strong and if you have a attached garage to your house it will stink up the house. I have read the info on the Sili Kroil, but I won't use silicone on my car because of the problems later if you want to paint the parts.

If you mix ATF and Acetone in 50/50 ratio , there should not be any problem with flammability any more than with the Kroil or Blaster. But like it was stated , it vary likely will blister paint.

Gary