John,

These works rally cars are a moving target for the researcher. They were made in small batches, and every batch was different due to the particular event they were intended for, the lessons learned on previous examples, and sometimes also due to regulation changes.

In each batch, there was often a raft of small variations between each car - so you have to view each car on a case-by-case basis. Each one was essentially unique. Once you start digging into it you begin to realise just what a huge subject it can become.......

I might start to consider writing something like a book ( or even just a 'vanity publishing' booklet ) when I start to believe I know where the bottom of the research trench is. At the moment I'm just digging ( with a spoon ) and I can't imagine that I've got anywhere near where I'd like to be! And all of the works cars are of interest to me, with the works circuit racing cars perhaps of more interest personally than the rally cars - but there's a lot of cross-over between their stories. Every time you find some new information it brings up more questions and more possibilities for research, so it is endlessly fascinating but also endlessly frustrating. Still, I'd rather it was like that than too easy. The mystery has its own appeal.

Here's a single shot that might help to illustrate just what Kevn faced in rescuing '3640'. He needed to save as much as possible of the original 'shell, but some of it had already physically disappeared. The works rally cars usually had their floor drain plug holes sealed up, which had long-term consequences thus:

Thank you Alan

I might start to consider writing something like a book...when I start to believe I know where the bottom of the research trench is.

Every time you find some new information it brings up more questions and more possibilities for research, so it is endlessly fascinating but also endlessly frustrating.

Alan,

Take a stab at it. History is something you will never get your arms around and no one expects you to. Documenting the one car would be a project by itself however well worth the effort.

But just looking at the floor picture has me thinking of questions already! I see what you mean.

Chris

...

I might start to consider writing something like a book ( or even just a 'vanity publishing' booklet ) when I start to believe I know where the bottom of the research trench is. At the moment I'm just digging ( with a spoon ) and I can't imagine that I've got anywhere near where I'd like to be! And all of the works cars are of interest to me, with the works circuit racing cars perhaps of more interest personally than the rally cars - but there's a lot of cross-over between their stories. Every time you find some new information it brings up more questions and more possibilities for research, so it is endlessly fascinating but also endlessly frustrating. Still, I'd rather it was like that than too easy. The mystery has its own appeal.

...

Alan,

Not that this wil push you into it, but, when/if you get this done, I'll buy an autographed copy!

Will

In each batch, there was often a raft of small variations between each car - so you have to view each car on a case-by-case basis. Each one was essentially unique. Once you start digging into it you begin to realise just what a huge subject it can become.......

How about a book per car? Imagine the pennies you'll make! :-)

So the car is stamped PS30 and not HS30 right? It left the factory as a 432? Or was it stamped HS30 but built using the techniques of the 432? The article in the magazine went some way toward explaining it but didn't go into detail.

So the car is stamped PS30 and not HS30 right? It left the factory as a 432? Or was it stamped HS30 but built using the techniques of the 432?

Gav,

These 'early' ( pre '72 season regulation change ) works cars were put together using some of the special pressings and panels that were originally created for the 432R ( as opposed to the 432, which had 'normal' panels and pressings ). So the rear quarters, roof and other panels were thinner gauge steel than 'standard' 240Z / 432 / Fairlady Z versions, whilst some of the more structural sections ( including inner and outer sills and the box sections at the rear of the car ) were thicker gauge steel than 'normal'........

Most of the FRP panels hung on the car ( bonnet / hood, doors and tailgate ) and the acrylic windows were parts originally introduced as stock and / or 'Sports Option' parts for the 432R, although there were some subtle differences due to the special conditions and needs of stage rallying ( rear window mounting, for example ). Even the seats in the rally cars were 432R type items - although some of the works rally cars ( including '3640' ) used a special reclining seat for the navigator, which was a concession to the nature of events like the Safari and the RAC in those days. Sometimes a driver would catch some rest in the navigator's seat whilst the navigator drove a road section......

So you could argue that these early works cars were essentially 'PZR' type bodies, but using L-gata mechanicals and stamped up with series production 'HS30' and 'HLS30' prefixes and body serial numbers on their firewalls and engine bay tags. They really were quite special.

Here's the engine bay tag from '3640', to illustrate:

Very interesting indeed. I can't imagine you would get much rest in a rally car though .

Were these cars referred to by any special name in the factory?

EG: the PS30-SB was the Z432R and the HS30-H was the Fairlady 240zg, were the rally cars given a special chassis suffix?

Btw have you written a book? The thread seemed to indicate you had already written one .

Very interesting indeed. I can't imagine you would get much rest in a rally car though .

On the big multi-day events like the old RAC, the crews would have to complete a fairly huge amount of road mileage between the timed special stages - some of it early in the morning and some fairly late at night. In circumstances like that, the chance of even a relatively short kip would probably have been most welcome. It's not actually all that noisy inside the car, and on a road section it would have been fairly civilised I think.

Were these cars referred to by any special name in the factory?

EG: the PS30-SB was the Z432R and the HS30-H was the Fairlady 240zg, were the rally cars given a special chassis suffix?

Variously - and somewhat loosely - I've seen them referred to in period as either '240ZR' or just 'ZR' variants. You have to remember that this was internal nomenclature and not for the likes of us on the outside to understand or use. The '240ZR' name was a bit of a moving target too, as the specs of the cars it was used in reference to were changing all the time, and it was used on works rally cars as well as works circuit racing cars.

The works competition department had their own numbering system for the cars, and they also used a 'Maintenace Number' ( 'Kanri Bango' in Japanese ) to identify each individual car in their system. This 'Kanri Bango' system even included the works service barges - some of which were actually pretty trick; More than one of them ended up with a full works-spec triple carbed race engine. You can usually see the original 'Kanri Bango' written on the cars in period photos. It was located on the rear valance, under the bumper on the right hand side. Some of these were actually reflective number and letter stickers.

Kevin's car had a 'ZR' number hand written in chalk underneath the dash. It reads '51 ZR' - so his car was probably the 51st 'ZR' at that point...... Remembering of course that the 'ZR' nomenclature could have included PZs and PZRs, as well as more than one type of '240ZR'.....

Btw have you written a book? The thread seemed to indicate you had already written one .

No, I'm still learning. Been digging a long time but can't see the bottom of the hole yet......

Here is a link to the Octane article posted online for those of us that couldn't find the magazine http://www.autotraderclassics.com/articles/templates/generalArticle.xhtml;jsessionid=494CAC693C7A286578F508AE02E96BEB?articleId=55346&conversationId=236.

-Mike