HLS30-OOO13 Has Been Found!

[Arne]

On this I would have to disagree. Yes the first 100 cars are special but the lowest VIN registered in the US not any more special? Just another low-vin conversation piece? Well, after all - we are here to converse about these cars so to trivialize that is to trivialize this...

I would say that while the first 100 are special, a car like the 13th is important, perhaps historically so. It should be restored and put in a museum. Perhaps your perspective is different owning the 26th but from where me and most of the others here are standing, this is a very important car. My car is a 73 and it sold in high volumes because of the popularity of this car...

And I'll have to side more with Chris, or even go a bit farther. The early cars are interesting, and different. But I don't know about the "Special" part. Unique in a way, yes. But the release of the S30 itself was the special part that changed the automotive world. The first few cars were just the advance scouts, that's all.

As for putting it in a museum, well to me that's just wrong. The people who designed and built these cars - even (or maybe especially) the first few - designed and built them to be driven and enjoyed, not sealed up in a climate-controlled room somewhere.

I truly enjoy the fact the #13 has had a long life with numerous owners who drove it, and not just let it sit. And I enjoy seeing other low-VIN cars move around under their own power, not be stored away somewhere. I really appreciated having Mike B actually drive #32 several hundred miles to Canby last year.

So my vote would be to refresh it, not restore it. Then enjoy it. That's what I'd do if it were mine...

[Colin240z]

Back to number 13....

We (CTZCC) had the opportunity of meeting the owner last night...what a ball. The owner is truly a Z nut, who has not been online and aware of the current fanfare associated with these early cars. He really had some great stories about the acquisition of his 3 early Zs. He also brought a portion of his vintage Datsun gear (jacket/shirts/posters/pics) I'll leave the stories for someone else, more qualified, to tell. But I will say that hearing this gentleman speak really put the whole thing in perspective...when he said that the lowest VIN listed in his old (US) parts/service manuals started with 00013...so when he did purchase this car, he knew he had something special.

In my humble opinion, I think this car is significant in that it is quite possibly the first 240Z available for public sale in the US...that's it...plain and simple.

As for restoration? It's only (mostly) original once...I would say freshen the mechanicals a bit and leave the patina.

Here's to less controversy n' hubbub.

Cheers,

Colin

[five&dime]

Amen to that Colin

[geezer]

Not directly related to HLS30-00013 or its significance to our hobby but here it is.

In my past I worked on several pilot programs preparing for the launch of new models. Most of you would be shocked to see the deplorable condition of these "early cars". In my view and the view of all of my co-workers, we would much rather wait until the buzz, squeaks & rattles were under control, as well as countless larger problems, before buying one ourselves. Funny now, but we actually had and it still exists, what we called the BSR team, complete with a uniquely outfitted building that included amongst the equipment, a shaker platform and adjoining test track. Point being, no one involved in the pre-production or early production was lining up to be the first in line for whatever model we were launching. Years later in retrospec I remember the difficulty of fitting the nose to the Plymouth Superbird and the joking amongst ourselves about how anyone buying one would be the butt of all jokes. That was then. Today::laugh: Point being, the value associated with any car that has reached collectable status is only in retrospec and only in the mind of a collector, but rightfully so. A premium being put on a lower chassis number is only a point of amusement to most of us but I am grateful for the commitment of the special breed of collectors who preserve history for all of us. My HLS30-11730 is as of now the last built and registered as a 1970 in 1970, HLS30 known. My pilot program days had nothing to do with that. Just coincidence.

Edited September 10, 2009 by geezer

[doradox]

Sorry if I offended you about the "Camero" spelling thing, but it's exactly the same way that Carl Beck (mis)spells it so often. I found that funny and ironic at the same time, given recent ( and historical ) forum exchanges. Don't take it too much to heart, please.

As for changing the subject in "answer" to your question - I wasn't aware of that habit. I'll have to be more careful, won't I? I thought I'd posted quite enough about the subject to make my case, as have others.

Sorry too for believing that you are one of those "designed for the US" people, if that's actually not the case. It's just that everything you have written around the topic lately ( like in that interesting Datsun USA press release thread that Mike B posted ) makes it look as though you're not willing to accept the fact that the concept, design, engineering and production of the cars was not centred solely on the USA market version.

I was genuinely hoping to hear your opinion ( as an engineer ) on the details of the car, but if you don't want to then you don't have to.

Alan T.

The 'Camero" thing is funny in that my son has a 2000 Camaro that has been and will be in my driveway for quite some time. Ironic in that respect too.

So about those three engines? Not a particularly effective fact in the "not designed for the US" argument. Or do you not agree? And why?

If I opine, as an engineer, I might give away my US or not US bias. :laugh:

I will say this. A great car is a great car regardless of who it was designed for.

Steve

[conedodger]

And I'll have to side more with Chris, or even go a bit farther. The early cars are interesting, and different. But I don't know about the "Special" part. Unique in a way, yes. But the release of the S30 itself was the special part that changed the automotive world. The first few cars were just the advance scouts, that's all.

As for putting it in a museum, well to me that's just wrong. The people who designed and built these cars - even (or maybe especially) the first few - designed and built them to be driven and enjoyed, not sealed up in a climate-controlled room somewhere.

I truly enjoy the fact the #13 has had a long life with numerous owners who drove it, and not just let it sit. And I enjoy seeing other low-VIN cars move around under their own power, not be stored away somewhere. I really appreciated having Mike B actually drive #32 several hundred miles to Canby last year.

So my vote would be to refresh it, not restore it. Then enjoy it. That's what I'd do if it were mine...

Again, I will have to disagree, in a way... Yes, the people who designed and built these cars intended them to be driven and enjoyed. But that was then. Perhaps they imagined the greatness they created perhaps not, more likely they were just pleased with their success but didn't imagine a following almost 40 years later. Sure, they intended that they be driven and enjoyed but if you could ask them now they might have a different opinion - this is now. I would go so far as to say probably have a much different opinion.

If I build something today that is intended to be used but later it becomes historically important I would want it preserved in a museum. There are plenty of them being driven and enjoyed and this one is important historically as are probably most of the vin# under 100 no matter where they landed in the world. The owner should do what he wants with it because he owns it but I would hope that one day it ended up in the Datsun Heritage Museum as it would be a worthwhile exhibit. Am I biased? Yes probably as I was an early contributor but I think I would have a hard time just driving around in a car that was the very first of any pedigree. I would want to make sure nothing bad happened to it as you can never replace the first of anything.

The guy who designed the Chrysler K car did so with the intention that it be driven and (ok, maybe not enjoyed) but your point of view reduces the Z to that level. It isn't even close. It changed everything and the lowest vin# sold should be destined for preservation of some kind.

[dimitri_zee]

One thing came to mind about this talk about not placing a car in a museum or other special place. Imagine driving your nice restored zed to a show etc and having a nice, rusted out POS shunting you in the rear. Insurance or not, the car is still rooted. No panel beater will ever be able to make it like it was. I'm happy to keep my #121 in the garage most of the time, and when on the road, keeping a good eye in the rear view and everywhere else! Around me, there's plenty of people that leave common sense at home.

[five&dime]

Side note but similar topic. I have heard that Jerry Seinfeld has the first and last 911 produced. Does that mean is has vin ..........1 or the first one sold in the US? And if he has the last one, which last one? Classic or newer? Otherwise he would have to swap the last one out at the end of each production run

I would think if #13 is truly the first car sold in the US then it would be a great candidate to be in the Datsun heritage personally. I don't see why that wouldn't be an ideal place for it.

[EVILC]

THERE IS NO WAY TO SAY ANY Z CAR WAS FIRST SOLD TO THE PUBLIC!

You can only say 13th was the lowest vin sold to the public, two different things. I can't believe I am reading pages and pages of the same topic, over and over and over.

[EVILC]

Just to clear up something it has been posted before. If 100 cars are shipped, who is to say that me the first person in line....likes a silver Z which is car lets say 22 over the color of car 13.....does that mean 22 is more special now because it was FIRST SOLD to public? Not at all!!!! All early cars are special due to the fact they are just OLD and have stories behind them and are a little different from a 70 model car. If ever 69 Z was still around and was tracked from day one.....there wouldn't be such a buzz for "early cars". Car 13 is just special because most believe it to be the LOWEST car sold to public.

I own a stock 44k mile 2/70 car....I don't ever look at it and say man...those 69 cars that were made 60 - 200 days before mine are so much better.

It is nice to be in a club...."low vin club is one" but to have pages of back and forth crap of value and why it should be restored is all bs.

Car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it......car is very cool because of the story with it......until facts are shown otherwise...most likely lowest vin SOLD to public...and now we as a group of Z lovers know where the car is.......find the rest!

[sblake01]

That's not really the topic.....but you should know that since you started it. Just another CZCC sidebar.

Edited September 11, 2009 by sblake01

[Kathy & Rick]

Madonna Mia,

If I knew I was going to start a war, or re-ignite the Revolutionary

War (Hi, Alan), I would have left the stupid car in the barn gathering

dust and cobwebs for another 25 or 30 years!!!!!!!!!!!

The L-24 engine is original, but the cylinder head has been replaced.

If I had owned it then, I would have seen if I could have got the

original head planed down even if it had raised the compression ratio

from 9.0 to 9.5 or so, in order to save it. But that was before my time......

I am the third owner of the car, since 8/30/76.

You can see a bazillion pictures of both our '69's by going to the Ct Z Car Club site (CTZCC.com). Get to the forum which has Upcoming Events, then go to the 2nd Annual CTZCC Car Show thread. Maybe 50 entries in, there is a link that will get you to a huge photo album. The #13 car is the butterscotch one; the #171 car is the British Racing Green.

The car that nobody raises a big fuss about is the #171 car, which has

28,700 original miles and is totally original including the belts, hoses,

and tires. I know that is true mileage because I knew the original

owner and bought it from her with 26,000 miles on it on 8/24/73.

Hope I haven't gotten into the middle of a crossfire, I'm already a

Purple Heart veteran!! But I will try to answer your questions as

accurately and honestly as I can, that is if everybody doesn't kill one

another first!!

All Z Best,.............Ranger Rick

Edited October 6, 2009 by Kathy & Rick