HLS30-OOO13 Has Been Found!

[stevef1972z]

Well said Dan.

[JohnnyO]

Alan , I can hear you beat your head against the wall from here !

When dealing with our Southern neighbours , it's easy to forget that

the ''world '' as they know it begins and ends inside the borders of

the great USA . And why try ? This INTERNET site is composed by

mostly U.S. members , and that aspect alone gives them rights to

think alone with one voice.... Oh , only friendly ribbing here , no need

to send Stealth fighters yet . My most memorable request yet comes

from a nice Texan , '' Does the Canadian flag come in any other colors ? ''

As heard on B.C. Ferries , summer 1986 . :classic:

Unkle,

Be careful, if it wasn't for that arsenal we own sitting directly west of you there's a good chance you'd be speaking Russian right now...

[moonpup]

Seems to me there's one individual with his nose higher in the air and thumping his chest louder than all the others combined! :kiss:

As far as #13 goes, what's all the hoopla about. Wasn't it already accounted for and who owned it, but no one knew for sure where he lived? It wasn't a complete unknown, unaccounted for, hasn't been seen since the early 70's car.

[Mike B]

As far as #13 goes, what's all the hoopla about. Wasn't it already accounted for and who owned it, but no one knew for sure where he lived? It wasn't a complete unknown, unaccounted for, hasn't been seen since the early 70's car.

According to this old thread http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26001, several people had claimed to have owned it over the years, but no one had provided evidence to confirm it.

-Mike

Edited August 15, 2009 by Mike B

[conedodger]

Not too sure why worth is even being discussed. Is the guy looking for offers? Seems to me he has just shown it to some guys he met and let them take pictures.

Perhaps the proper semantics would be the lowest VIN actually sold in the USA? No way to tell what VIN was sold first in the USA, and in any case that was probably in California no???

Is there any more to report on the car? This seems to have devolved into a critique of the US hegemony.

[geezer]

He seemed to have dropped out of the Z Car community and no one knew where he was...

Engine L24-02085

Thanks for the refresher Carl. I recall discussing this car previously. Details were sketchy then but it was believed to be still in existance. It will make for an interesting story, no matter what the reason for it's resurfacing at this time. It's too easy for our imaginations to get away from us. I am left wondering if the owner just hasn't had the time or money to devote to the hobby until now, or being a knowledgable collector, has simply had it tucked away and has now decided to sell? No matter the present condition or history, it gives me a good feeling to see her listed among the alive & well.

PS - It still isn't clear to me if L24-02085 is the original engine. That is the data plate I most would have liked to see.

Edited August 15, 2009 by geezer

[Zs-ondabrain]

Crap , got caught up in it, sorry for the smackdown, Dave .

Is that what that was? I thought it was more like one of those 'GOOD GAME" smacks on the arse from the coach. Or something like that.

I was actually hoping it WOULD end there and "Nobody would say anything else. But we all know that would be wishfull thinking. I'm actually more interested in the car, the facts and the latest update. More than what HS30 has to ramble about.

Apology accepted and not even the slightest bit upset.

Have a great week-end everyone..

Dave

[HS30-H]

I think you missed a few 'little Ls' in post #17 too.

Thank you Mike. I have edited the post accordingly.

Alan, if you have questions or comments about the post on ctzcc.com why not post them there so the person that posted can address them directly? It seems like you are asking for people on this site who didn't make the comments to defend them.

Thank you for the suggestion, Mike. I had actually considered doing just that, but I don't know how such questions would be taken.

Quite often it seems that asking for bald and inaccurate statements ( such as that "....the first Z car sold to the public" ) to be corrected or refined is taken as some kind of political attack on the USA, and this might be worse with a close-knit 'local' forum. I thought I'd bring it up here, as I honestly think there is a greater depth of knowledge here, and there are one or two people that understand what it is I'm trying to get at.

You do understand what it is I'm trying to get at, don't you? This forum is quite a lot different now than it was a few years ago. I now see figures such as yourself stating with obvious conviction that the S30-series Z range was designed for a world market, when just a few short years ago it seemed as though such beliefs were the equivalent of witchcraft. This is a great inspiration, but unfortunately we still see posts such as the one on this thread where 'production figures' that are known to be wrong are quoted with a link that includes the words "History/Zproduction.html" - so we all go back to square one......

Maybe I'll see if I can find the right way to bring the subject up on the ctzcc.com forum.

Back to the original subject of this thread - the 'discovery' of HLS30-00013. I would think it is significant for what it appears to be - the lowest VIN# HLS30 sold directly to the public.

See? That's perfect. Nobody can argue with that. That's what I'm looking to see. It can't be that hard, can it?

Cheers,

Alan T.

[doradox]

I think I'm making a fairly good effort to say something substantial, but you're ignoring it :classic:

You haven't answered any of my questions, by the way.

With your ability to see into the future, I think you would have been very useful to Nissan around 1968/69. At that point they had designed and engineered a new family of sports / GT cars, and hoped to sell a high number of one particular basic variant to the north American market ( ahem, not just the USA ). You could of course have told them just how many they were going to sell, and they could have tooled up appropriately ( instead of underestimating it, which is what DID happen ). Hindsight seems to make those numbers look like a 'done deal' to you.

Of course my point - which you conveniently ignore - is that the numbers sold don't actually tell us the whole story of the concept, design and engineering of the S30-series Z range as seen at launch. Talking about the "240Z" ( which 240Z? ) as though it is Z Genesis is just a symptom of the problem.

But of course, I'm just "nit picking" and you are doing something else entirely

Any volunteers on the HLS30-00016 original sale story? I'm building my hopes up for a good laugh.

My point has everything to do with the relative size of the US market. I never claimed that it tells the whole story. YOU are the one making that claim. Logically, that's why I am not addressing most of your "points".

My point is backed up with hard facts. (let's not dwell on minor inaccuracies and if you would like to correct them feel free).

You hit back with, and I will paraphrase, "that number isn't accurate" , "that's the wrong name" and "you forgot about Japan" (which if you read and did the math you saw I didn't), what version s30? blah blah blah.

I merely made a well backed claim regarding your request for "prespective", and other comments about why the US seems to ignore the rest of the world.

I think that provides others with perspective, but to be honest I can't "know" that to be true. YMMV.

The 13 car ( do you need the full VIN to understand which car I am speaking of?) was found in the US and the US consumed the vast majority of Nissan's production of the 240Z and variants. On a per capita basis the US embraced the Z like no other market. Even the home market.

Fact.

No conjecture or hours long debate dwelling on minute historical details required.

One might say the per capita number is a measure of the importance of the car to a particular market. My name is not "One" by the way.

Steve

Edited August 15, 2009 by doradox

[26th-Z]

The US fell in love with the Z.

There! That's perfect. That statement right there puts all of the sales figure retoric in context. It puts Alan's message in context. It is the most telling statement in this thread. Why is HLS30-00013 so important? Why was HLS30-00016 so important? Why is the theory that the 240Z was made for America so important? Why all of this bantering? Because of that statement.

I suggest we look at the 'world car' image that Alan presents with respect to a simple time line. The sales figures did not exist when the S30 was designed and its world-wide distribution planned. All one has to do is look at the way the car was designed to accomodate so many different varieties of construction to understand the 'world car' view. The sales figures happened later for the reason quoted above. They are irrelevant. The S30 was designed for the L20A engine, the L24 engine, the S20 engine, right-hand drive, left-hand drive, manual and automatic transmissions, and a list of various options. The 240Zs we drive in America are only one variant of what was available. Hate to say this, but the 240Z was not designed for just America. Sure turned out that way, but it didn't start out that way. I have no doubt that Yutaka Katayama saw the potential and influenced the design, but I'm convinced that the design he influenced was the particular variant we got in America. Please go to the thread Mike posted about the press release and consider the impact of what we normally hear and discuss about the early Zs. I have said this to both Mike and Alan privately; that press release shatters the current thought and is at least equally important to actually finding HLS30-00013 in the metal.

[bigoak]

There! That's perfect. That statement right there puts all of the sales figure retoric in context. It puts Alan's message in context. It is the most telling statement in this thread. Why is HLS30-00013 so important? Why was HLS30-00016 so important? Why is the theory that the 240Z was made for America so important? Why all of this bantering? Because of that statement.

I suggest we look at the 'world car' image that Alan presents with respect to a simple time line. The sales figures did not exist when the S30 was designed and its world-wide distribution planned. All one has to do is look at the way the car was designed to accomodate so many different varieties of construction to understand the 'world car' view. The sales figures happened later for the reason quoted above. They are irrelevant. The S30 was designed for the L20A engine, the L24 engine, the S20 engine, right-hand drive, left-hand drive, manual and automatic transmissions, and a list of various options. The 240Zs we drive in America are only one variant of what was available. Hate to say this, but the 240Z was not designed for just America. Sure turned out that way, but it didn't start out that way. I have no doubt that Yutaka Katayama saw the potential and influenced the design, but I'm convinced that the design he influenced was the particular variant we got in America. Please go to the thread Mike posted about the press release and consider the impact of what we normally hear and discuss about the early Zs. I have said this to both Mike and Alan privately; that press release shatters the current thought and is at least equally important to actually finding HLS30-00013 in the metal.

Yes. Very well put.

[7T1240]

Please go to the thread Mike posted about the press release and consider the impact of what we normally hear and discuss about the early Zs. I have said this to both Mike and Alan privately; that press release shatters the current thought and is at least equally important to actually finding HLS30-00013 in the metal.

The press release thread that Mike B started can be found here: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35384&highlight=press+release