Does an accurate wiring diagram exist for early 1970 240Z?

[EScanlon]

Since you mention that you're looking for where the glass heater switch plugs into, you might want to look at these posts:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32187

Posts 2 and 7 specifically.

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?p=157255#post157255

Post 8

Both of those threads deal with the Defrost Grid you mention having. The wiring schematics I cite are the ones you'll need to correctly identify the circuit.

HTH

E

[Mike B]

No wonder I can't find where the glass heater switch plugs into because in a manner of speaking Nissan hadn't thought of it yet.

Actually, that is not true. Nissan had thought of it, and the JDM Fairlady ZL models came with heated rear glass from the beginning of production (1969). Apparently Nissan initially thought that it wasn't necessary for cars exported to the North American market, but that changed after only a couple months.

-Mike

[geezer]

Actually, that is not true. Nissan had thought of it, and the JDM Fairlady ZL models came with heated rear glass from the beginning of production (1969). Apparently Nissan initially thought that it wasn't necessary for cars exported to the North American market, but that changed after only a couple months.

-Mike

Just thinking out loud here Mike.

I have given a great deal of thought to some of the features available in other markets but not to us in North America. I have convinced myself that it wasn't necessarilly the view of Nissan "that it wasn't necessary for cars exported to the North American market", being the reason for the early cars not being fitted with the heated rear glass.

Nissan developed the policy of marketing a single standard model (HLS30) to the North American Market without the convenience of the customer being able to order from an Options List ( like in Japan ), in which case the selected options would have been added while being built, in most cases. I think that early on in the S30 run, parts supply was not yet up to the speed required to keep up with the expected sales projections in the North American Market and in keeping with their "standard model" policy, had no choice but to delay the heated rear window introduction until it could be done across the board.

Sorry for piling my speculative views on this thread.

[Mike B]

Just thinking out loud here Mike.

I have given a great deal of thought to some of the features available in other markets but not to us in North America. I have convinced myself that it wasn't necessarilly the view of Nissan "that it wasn't necessary for cars exported to the North American market", being the reason for the early cars not being fitted with the heated rear glass.

Nissan developed the policy of marketing a single standard model (HLS30) to the North American Market without the convenience of the customer being able to order from an Options List ( like in Japan ), in which case the selected options would have been added while being built, in most cases. I think that early on in the S30 run, parts supply was not yet up to the speed required to keep up with the expected sales projections in the North American Market and in keeping with their "standard model" policy, had no choice but to delay the heated rear window introduction until it could be done across the board.

Sorry for piling my speculative views on this thread.

That's an interesting perspective Ron. My thoughts are that the HLS30 model we received in North America was designed as a mid-level 'value' model. It was somewhere between the base Fairlady Z model and the more highly optioned Fairlady ZL model. If you look at all of the Datsun advertising in US in the late 60's it stresses the value of the cars with 'no extra cost' features at an economy price. I think they were trying to include the 'right mix' of options that would satisfy customers, but not increase the price so much that it was no longer a great value.

It seems Nissan was working right up until the introduction of the car to finalize what the right mix of options and cost would be. If you look at the 1969 US 240Z brochure it notes that a 5 speed was standard, and shows the engine with triple solex carbs, but they were both dropped prior to production. It also doesn't list carpet as std equipment, only a "trunk floor mat". According to the original carpet supplier for US cars, Nissan initially planned to sell the cars with only rubber mats (standard in the Fairlady Z) but changed their minds after they got feedback from select dealers that were shown a protype. The early HLS30 cars also came with clear glass instead of tinted glass, but that was also changed after a couple of months production. Since JDM model cars had the ability to include these options from the beginning, I think part inventories could have been adjusted as needed. Especially since volume was pretty low initially, with only about 500 HLS30s produced in 1969.

-Mike

[geezer]

This is an interesting topic but unfortunately I find myself intruding on a thread because this was loosely related. I will leave it up to the moderators to spin it off into a separate thread or beat my a$$ with a stick.

I don’t think you can lump any of these parts mentioned into the same scenario. A different circumstance accompanies each of them. The designers’ vision is one thing and what becomes reality is always different and “subject to change” for any number of reasons. Today this disclaimer is included in virtually every media release or sales brochure for good reason. The daily chain of events leading up to “what is” is not always controlled by the powers to be either, especially during the launch of a totally new model, nothing is cut & dried. The logistics involved are staggering. Department heads have to stay well connected to assess the constantly changing flow of events. Meeting are frequent, proposals and best practice options are put forth and discussed on dozens of points daily. I agree with the “working until the introduction of the car to finalize what the right mix of options and cost would be,” but it doesn’t end there and never does. In the case of the heated rear window, I believe decisions had to be made early on, to insure the continuity of product designation in each market, or prevent production delays. Also the previously produced glass had to be used. It is not as easy as one might think to simply adjust the parts inventory levels as needed, especially during launch. The lead time from concept to development was much longer than today. You can request X number of pieces per, but the number guaranteed may be much less until production gets up to speed. Only after surpassing glass production parity with market requirements can you consider adjusting inventory levels. In the mean time supplying a much smaller market could be guaranteed a supply deemed sufficient. The information is compiled, and a plan is discussed and implemented after approval. Ah…to be a fly on the wall. I don’t intend anyone to take any of this as fact. Just speculation.

[EScanlon]

Not to continue the off-topic discussion, but to point something out that has always been ignored in discussions of options, features, design etc. of the Z. That is the Steel Tariffs that were imposed by President Johnson in 1968 under the guise of "voluntary" export restrictions by European and Japanese manufacturers.

These tariffs were plain old "quotas" of imported steel enacted by the government in response to pressure from the steel industry trade association and the steelworker's union. All under the guise of protecting US jobs/industry.

This isn't an anti-american slur, nor anti-union, simply a statement of the global economic situation in place at the time that the Z was being finalized in it's design, production being proposed, and actually begun.... the TOTAL weight of the vehicle was the primary criteria by which the car was evaluated in the import scheme of things. This may be my memory playing tricks, but I distinctly remember reading article after article regarding design criteria by numerous manufacturers being modified to meet/beat the tariffs.

Little things like thicker steel for rust prevention was NOT in the design, simply because of the cost of importing the raw steel into Japan and then paying a premium to export it out to be imported into the US. Extra weight items; carpet, heated glass, courtesy lamps, kick-bars, etc. were additional weight. I may be postulating something that did NOT actually happen, but I sincerely doubt that the management at Nissan would have been so obtuse as to not take it into consideration.

Most people have completely ignored this component of the world trade situation back then. I was 12 in 1968, but I was living outside the US (Spain), and I can remember reading numerous stories throughout the end of the 60's and into the early 70's about the steel quotas, tariffs, and restrictions on imported vehicles. That part of the "whole picture" played a much bigger role into the whole production design scenario than trying to guess where given vehicles would sell in the numbers they finally DID sell in.

FWIW

E

Edited September 11, 2009 by EScanlon

[geezer]

Not to continue the off-topic discussion, but to point something out that has always been ignored in discussions of options, features, design etc. of the Z. That is the Steel Tariffs that were imposed by President Johnson in 1968 under the guise of "voluntary" export restrictions by European and Japanese manufacturers.

Hi Enrique. You must have missed it in my last post. This is included under the umbrella of "subject to change" for any number of reasons.

Seriously, you make some good points. I vaguely remember most of the politically motivated storys and rulings of the period and probably would have been convinced it was for the good of our North American industry at the time. I wasn't at all concerned about the obstacles that had to be overcome by the Japanese and their desire to branch out throughout the world. There must be some good reading available covering this subject. I'm much more interested today. I have only read a few books concerning Japanese industry. William Gorham An American Engineer in Japan was an excellent read but set in a much earlier time period. Another excellent read is Engineered in Japan. It is set in a later time period but still one of my favorites. Great insight dealing with Japanese technology, management practices and the interaction worldwide sharing ideas & technology. A miriad of topics are covered. I seem to have a big gap in my library. Nothing that deals with trade practices of the S30 era. No doubt, the Japanese had to rise above a great deal of adversity and they did.

Edited September 11, 2009 by geezer