I want one of these!!!!!

[Alfadog]

If I had 30k to spend on a car I would get something that wasn't ugly

[Zpeed]

the holden monaro with the LS1 with the T56 is going to be the GTO...

i'm not sure about what the sedan commodore will be called in the us, but that version i don't think will be going there untill 2005 or so, and then it will be a diffearnt looking car anyway.

[Mike]

Originally posted by Zvoiture

How do I get one in the US?

steve77

Hey Steve,

That looks like many of the cars in Australia. The Holden is a very popular car down there. Holden is dominating the industry in Aust. While they are nice looking and pretty quick... they are heavy and seem to have all the same problems that Chev or GMC has here in the US.

I took a 3-4 day trip on the Great Ocean Road in a Holden Commodore. It's very similar to a Ford Taurus, but, has been 'supped' up to perform better. Comparing these two cars side by side, I'd much rather drive the Commodore.

Anyway, reading into this post, these guys have already mentioned that Holden will be bringing in a car through Pontiac. It will be called the GTO.

The car I really liked in Aust (besides the Skyline) was the Holden Monara (HSV version) -- stands for Holden Special Version. These cars were upwards of $100,000 AUD (around $55,000 USD).

[Alfadog]

That's MonarO Mike !

But yeah, teh Falcadores (Aussie slang meaning both Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore - they are practically the same car with a different skin) are a hell of a lot of car for the money... Not that I endorse them or anything - I'd much rather 4 pristine 240Z's

[Ivan]

I used to think of the Holden's and Fords as crappy cars but as of the last few years they have been getting much better, Independent rear suspension (finally), 350ci v8's and event talk about a 427ci v8, that's pretty cool!

They have been getting bigger and more shapely as well (bigger than a maxima, well in over all size perhaps).

"replacement for the Firebird and Camaro" - Holden Commodores have been around since about 1978 I think.

I would have thought the Australians would have been more proud of their cars. Saying that if I had $100000 to spend on a car it wouldn't be a Holden (too common)

[2ManyZs]

Not sure about the Commodores, but if I remember right, it is the Monaro that will be the replacement for the Camaro and fFirebird here in the US if GM does what it has said it intends to do.

I personally think the Monaro is a bit better looking than the 350Z, body styling wise at least. I can just hear the flack from that statement.......

[MicksZ]

I work at Holden's Engine plant and we were released the pics of this car earlier than the official release - it is just a commodore SS with 4X4 and a few other body mods. really these cars are just a dressed up family car Commodore

I would put the cash into my 240Z or buy a Godzilla R34 GTR.

[halz]

I have friends who are Ford/Holden nuts who always get excited every time a 'new' release comes out. Usually the new release is just a styling update on the same old platform. Early in its history, Holden was bought out by GM to become GM-H...supposedley a local builder but with a bit of backing from a big parent in the U.S. Ford also construct locally and try to give a 'home grown' feel to their product. In the Late '60s there was a horsepower war between GM-H and Ford which spawed a series of muscle cars which are now collectors pieces in Australia. These are namley the Holden Monaro and the Ford Falcon.

The top spec Monaro in 1968 was the GTS powered by a (guess what) Chev 327 with a Saginaw 4-speed. Three were also a lot of cooking models with smaller 6 cylinder engines, auto transmissions and also a smaller V8, the 307. 1969 saw the introduction of the 350 GTS Monaro and this engine was continued into the subsequent 1970, 71 and 72 (?) models (I think the HQ had a 350 option??). Interestingly in 1969-70, Holden introduced a locally designed V8, the 308 which stayed in production until recently (the late '90s) when our GM overlords canned it in favour of a GM-designed 5 litre V8. The 308 was locally designed, that is, with the blessing of GM who made sure the engine didn't evolve into anything that sported too much modern technology - fuel injection was about as far as it went

I'm less clear on the Ford story although their top car was the Falcon GT-HO with a 351 V8 and 4 speed. That engine and a smaller 302 were availble at least into the '80s when the 351 was dropped.

Now all of these motors were basically the same: pushrod OHV jobs and still are! With the exception of Ford who has had OHC 6 cylinder engines in recent times, both GM-H and Ford have largely been lagging a long way behind the automative mainstrem in engine technology. Where are the twin cams? Only 2 valves per cylinder? (how does the exhaust get out?!?).

Ford have recently taken a few paces ahead with the release of twin cam sixes, variable cam timing and (shock!) turbo charging... now we're getting somewhere.

The reintroduction of the 'Monaro' by Holden has ben largely welcomed in Australia. However if you look closely you will find a few familliar U.S. inspired features... namely high displacement engines with OHV technology.

So, when my Holden/Ford afficionado mates say "gee whiz, look at the latest Falcodore (thanks for the term Alfadog), my reply for the last 15 years or so has been, has it got overhead cams yet? How about 4 valves per cylinder? The answer until recently has been a grumpy silence.

Yes the new Monaro will be sold in the US as a Pontiac GTO. But don't complain about the crappy engine/driveline it might have, you guys gave us that a long time ago!

[zep]

Bah! Who wants one of them when you can have a 1978 Holden Gemini Coupe producing 78hp like mine!!!

see it: http://zep.sensibleerection.com/gemini

(dont go to the main site if you get easily offended )

[dohc]

Hi all,

Just stepping in to set a few things straight. Firstly I'd like to state up front that I'm neither a true Holden or Ford fan, but I have tended to lean towards Holden because they have had a superior product since the early '90's (Other Aussies will know what I mean).

Secondly, the new Ford Falcon will give Holden's market dominance a serious run for it's money and it will be interesting what Holden do to combat it. Ford have been running behind for a while (hello, EA and AU falcon!)

Thirdly the Commodores are not a piece of sh*t as stated above, what they lack in elegance they make up for in driving pleasure and grunt (the V8's and super charged 6's anyway). (Remember, economic family car, practical over fun)

Anyway, now that that is clear.

As Mike mentioned above the two door version of the family sedan is the Monaro (meaning womens breast in Aboriginal but that's another story) and has quite a racing history in Australia. HSV's versions of these start from around AU$40k (I think) and they have just put a show car out that (if produced) will sell for AU$220k (doing 420kw from a 427ci V8). The middle range HSV's will be imported to the states (50,000 per year for the first year...) as the Pontiac GTO to try and revive the old name plate... Not sure on the history of the GTO so I don't know if the Monaro will continue the legacy or not?

Anyway it will be equipped with the GenIV V8 (to be built 2004), currently using the Gen III (hardly an old engine as leeroy mentioned above) or the HFV6 (from 2004)which is a pretty damn good Cadillac engine (also to be used by BMW) from what I hear. Finally with this V6 Holden go twin over head cam and get an all alloy engine with 4 valves a cyclinder (finally) On top of this the the suspension is pretty good, not brilliant, but very predictable. I know that the IRS they use was disguarded by BMW in the 70's and trailing arm isn’t cool, but it does mean that the masses can have a good lookin' car with pretty good handling. Especially in the HSV's which are lowered and tricked out a little. The GenIV will be running through a 6 speed (maybe a Hollinger?) and or a BMW developed 5-speed automatic, think 5 series (by 2005). So Halz, your mates can finally say, “Yep, finally after lagging for 20 odd years we have an alloy engine with overhead cams and 4 valves a cyclinder…” Now for the interior refinement :classic:

As I mentioned above they are looking to produce the 420kw version with a 427, but they have already produced and sold about 500 (correct me if I’m wrong) GTS 300, which wring 300kW out of the old V8’s that were built in Australia. They are looking at making another run of these called the R8 (I think?) with the Gen III. A very quick car that, as many reviewers state, handles very well for its bulk. It is after all build as a family car first and formost, so don’t go comparing it to Skylines and the like.

All of this speil is just to point out a lot of common misconceptions about Holden and the above shown VY Commondore (ah, Commodore). I admit the current VX commodores (which Mike probably drove) aren’t anything special unless in HSV guise, but Holden are continually innovating which is why you see so many around the streets of Australian cities. As well as winning the great races, including Bathurst a couple of weeks ago, they cater to the buyer. As I said before though, lets see if the new Falcons’ (turbo’d to 230kW stock) has the goods to take GM down.

R.

(Hope that clears it up a little, or maybe just muddies the water :classic: )

[dohc]

I forgot to mention in that entire novel that the Monaro is the two door version, and that's about the only change in base form.

The four door version shown won't be exported for awhile and will have all the goodies that I've raved about above....

Thanks for reading (if anyone has bothered :stupid: )

r.

[2ManyZs]

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I read it...:classic:

It's nice to here something form someone who has driven the cars and knows them well, instead of leaving to to the "all-knowing" magazine journalists here in the US when they get some of them over hear to evaluate.

I'm just curious to see if this is going to be one of GM's "Better ideas" or if they are making another Pontiac Aztek (read BIG MISTAKE). GM lost a lot of fans when they discontinued the F-body, but after using the same chassis for about 20 years, you would think they could come up with something that is new and exciting. Nearly every F-body has had the same complaints/problems since the 80's. Terrible interior, ergonomics, cowl shake, rattles, etc,etc,etc.