New ZCCA Judging Rules

[gnosez]

There no "judged in bulk" items but rather very specific items that are clearly noted in the judging rules under each of the three major areas (engine, body, interior). Therefore you can have a dirty, missing or cracked washer bottle, steering coupler, or clutch MC and still score a 100 if all the items on the judging list are in perfect condition.

The older rules (in place several years ago) left a few points (I believe it was 3) in each major area to be used by the judge as a "catch-all" to cover these non-listed items.

Use the rules to your advantage....

[26th-Z]

Chris - constructive comments re: doing it right and not rushing a document out before it's ready is not, in my book bitching.

To go out with perhaps the most important if not THE MOST IMPORTANT document that the ZCCA is known for without it being simple to understand is counter-productive.

Not sure what the rush was since the next convention is more than 9 months away.

And Chris, there are a large number of Z folks who do documents for a living and I'm sure a few would have volunteered to assist the ZCCA on this matter. You are not alone and you get to spread the blame around more.

And as an aside, if you want to discuss "factory installed AC units", then include model and year, since you now have folks asking about AC units in S30s when in point of fact you where describing Zs from 1979 on.

Good points, if they were based in fact. However six months of regular conference between three people with two others contributing are represented in this revision. The rush was last year, not now. The rules revision discussion started after the Cleveland convention and accelerated when the 370Z was introduced. People who do documents for a living contributed. That's why all the gramatical changes and consistancy of terminology. In point of fact, dealer installed air-conditioning has been eliminated for all models and all years. Stock is now 'stock'; as the car arrived from the factory in Japan with only the specific 'consumable' exceptions noted.

I appreciate the comments, John, and I hope you understand that the revisions are not within the realm of your concerns.

I should ad that one of the two contributing people I mentioned wrote the last revision.

Edited October 9, 2009 by 26th-Z
More thoughts

[26th-Z]

If I am interpreting the rules outlined on page 7, paragraph A, Stock Class, correctly, it appears that the statement, "Air-conditioning must be factory installed", now eliminates the dealer installed York units of the early series 1 cars as a stock item?

Do the firewall holes for the A/C hoses need to be patched, or will rubber plugs be adequate for no point deductions? It will probably be a long time before a convention makes it back to the Western region where this could to be an issue for me, but I just thought I would ask for clarification for all who may be concerned.

And kudos to 26th-Z for all his good work with the Z.C.C.A.

Dan

Dan,

Yea, the plugs didn't come from the factory...

Fit and finish are still the focus of the rules, however. Nice rubber plugs would be appropriate. I would be upset if I got nicked five points for plugs.

The talk / focus for the convention after Nashville is out West, perhaps featuring the Heritage Museum.

Chris

[26th-Z]

There no "judged in bulk" items but rather very specific items that are clearly noted in the judging rules under each of the three major areas (engine, body, interior). Therefore you can have a dirty, missing or cracked washer bottle, steering coupler, or clutch MC and still score a 100 if all the items on the judging list are in perfect condition.

The older rules (in place several years ago) left a few points (I believe it was 3) in each major area to be used by the judge as a "catch-all" to cover these non-listed items.

Use the rules to your advantage....

The cars are judged on the whole and not the individual parts. Come-on! You know that! You can't show up with a diseased washer bottle!

[gnosez]

Please provide specific location within the rules that show where a judge would be allowed to take off points for say, a missing washer bottle, a dirty steering coupler or clutch MC.

And no, the comment section doesn't count because of a rule change several years ago that took that option away from an individual judge.

Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying you can't have it both ways. Either you follow what is written and contained in the rules or you start reading something into them that isn't there. That path takes you down the road of individual rule making and it was my understanding that consistent judging across the country was the idea.

[26th-Z]

And no, the comment section doesn't count because of a rule change several years ago that took that option away from an individual judge.

Heh...That's a perfect example of reading something into the rules that isn't there. You'll have to show me where that one came from!

John, what's your point? The rules don't call out every specific part for every specific model of every specific year. They are not intended to. You know that! Bottom line...show a dirty car and you're going to loose. Simple, clear, concise, everyone can understand. If you spend all your time trying to figure out how to bend the rules in your favor then what are you really doing?

Edited October 9, 2009 by 26th-Z

[TomoHawk]

If the comment secion doesn't count, why are they still on the scoring pages? The comments are for just that purpose, but I've never gotten any, and comments are written after any deductions are made, so they don't affect the score. they are probably for a suggestion or two to help the owner do better the next time.

gnose-

There are some non-specific areas for "bulk" items. For example, on the engine sheet there are items like hoses, brake lines, paint finish and electrical. Those are all not very specific and broad-ranging items.

The same thing occurs on the interior and exterior score sheets.

Edited October 9, 2009 by TomoHawk

[TomoHawk]

Out of all this I see a very comprehensive book or document on preparing your S30 (for example) to be very-low-deduction car. There are books on doing show cars, but you'd think they are fairly general and aren't very specific to our needs, so you end up guessing at what the judges would look for (as usual.)

thxZ

Edited October 9, 2009 by TomoHawk

[sblake01]

Out of all this I see a very comprehensive book or document on preparing your S30 (for example) to be very-low-deduction car. There are books on doing show cars, but you'd think they are fairly general and aren't very specific to our needs, so you end up guessing at what the judges would look for (as usual.)

thxZ

Some of the comments I've read thus far and in other similar discussions seem to indicate how difficiut an undertaking assembling that book/document would be. It would be just as subject to conjecture/discussion as the judging rules themselves.

[zlady]

You know when you have a great car, great prep skils for a show, and you love your car. Rules are a guide for improvement and yes, you are going to have poor judges at times. but if we battle "specifics" which will always be somewhat gray and its in every facet of life....you are missing the ride!

I think the rules and how they were "cleaned up" and improved was great progress just like Will said. I am pleased to see people who still care enough to put forth the energy to continue to make improvements.

After 10 years of using the ZCCA judging rules for my car I have learned alot about how to improve my car to factory stock. I used to get caught up in the scores I was receiving and when they changed so much because of judges were weak or strong I just started focusing on the comments. Later on when the car started scoring over 270 points I paid a little more attention to the level I was competing at but still the comments from knowledgable judges were the most beneficial to me. When I didn't get those "good" judges I would just enjoy the day and the Z people.

We will always continue to make progress with the rules and these rules will help elevate the quality of our cars which is important. Peoples Choice shows are good to pull others in with no stress and enjoy their cars but it doesn't always help with improvement of the cars.

I would be embarrassed to show a car that only follows the "specifics" only and neglecting the car as a whole. That would be a disgrace, show a lack of care for my car I so enjoy, and a lack of respect for the whole purpose of why I show cars.

Edited October 9, 2009 by zlady

[gnosez]

Two things. One, if someone lost in a tie with another Z in my class because they had a dirty clutch MC, when that part is not covered under the judging rules, I would expect them to raise an unholy stink. And they would have some pretty solid ground to stand on. You want "bulk items" or general overall appearance to count towards a final score, then include them in the rules. If not, then stand back and watch folks get angry, confused and frustrated.

Second, in keeping with my own personal opinion on car shows I will repeat a statement I've made to numerous car owners - "The trophies cost about $10., here's $10., go buy one and stop fretting about your score".

Edited October 9, 2009 by gnosez

[golgo13]

Extreme and hypothetical senarios...

Paint carries max 10pts, so if everything else is perfect, even though the car is in primer (say it scores 0 on the paint), it could theoretically still tally up 290pts or above to win a gold (medallion or cup).

Also, a car that scores above 290pts, but the engine is dead(say internal damage and therefore judges can't see, => no point diduction). She can still win a Gold (medallion or cup)..

None of that will probablly happen in real life, but it could theoretically happen...Odd...