Who actually did S30's styling? We can make it clear

[sblake01]

sblake01, GrandPrixGreen,

I did not know about "bagua",I need to search it on the web.

I do know about it. It's a fundamental ancient Chinese philosophical concept. That's not why I asked the question. I was curious as to why it was dropped into this discussion. I guess it could be applied to this discussion if one wanted to.

Those styles don't have that unique like the finished product. The 'roadster' has that 'Jaguar' look the people always tag these cars with as the type C seems to have more of the 'Ferrari' look that they've also been tagged with.

Edited October 27, 2009 by sblake01

[kats]

Thanks sblake01:)

But at least we know the names of the main protagonists in the story, and we have photos of them at work. Contrast this with the fact that just a few weeks ago another 'Datsun 240Z' article was published in a UK classic car magazine, and - as usual - it implies that Goertz had input into the actual design of the car. It's the same old horse $^!#. The man never drew a single line that ended up on the S30-series Z, and yet we still see credit both given and implied. Crazy.

Alan T.

Thanks Alan,I hope every journalist sees this thread.I would like to see the magazine.

When Mr.Tamura was ordered to do finalizing Type AC as a designer,he started with the picture TypeAClate(bottom far left).At the time Mr.Yoshida had left this team.

Before that,he was a "modeler"(assistance of the designer,like Mr.Yoichi Shitara, thanks Alan) and he worked for Type C and Type AC early and Type AC late.

Usually, one model has one designer and 3 to 4 modelers,Mr.tamura told me.

Bottom right two pictures are the results by Mr.Tamura.

Edited October 27, 2009 by kats

[kats]

Mr.Tamura began re-finishment from the body side panels.

Please see his drawing,

Do you see what he is explaining?

kats

PS:Mr.Tamura said some designers prefer to start from right hand side(driver side in Japan) but he always start from left hand side(passenger side in Japan,port side in ship/airplane).

Modellers helped to make opposite side to be identical shape.Mr.Tamura said

he was a number one modeller in the studio,good modellers like him can make almost perfect identical shape without mesurement/machine.The difference is only aprox.10mm!

[HS30-H]

Mr.Tamura began re-finishment from the body side panels.

Please see his drawing,

Do you see what he is explaining?

Kats,

I really like what Tamura san writes here. That's the profile of the door in cross-section, isn't it? He talks about making parts of the body on the 'A-an' ( 'Plan' / 'Prototype' A ) more 'sharp'. Sharpening up the side profile, sharpening up the rear, reducing the overhang of the bonnet. When he says 'sharp', I start to think of the Japanese use of the English word, which implies just as much about style as it does about actual shape. I also thought about the words 'crisp', and 'clean'. Overall, he's talking about a process of definition, of refinement.

His comment at the bottom of that page is nice. He says that "...through these refinements, prototype 'A' became more of a 'sports' car."

Alan T.

[kats]

That's it,thank you Alan:beer:

Perfect,Alan.I am very happy you can interpret instead of me.

Please keep going like this,now I can not stop myself asking what Mr.Tamura is talking about in all the pictures I attached so far...

Let's do it together,Alan.Or anybody can read Japanese would be appreciated

.Some fellow members here have Japanese wives?

kats

[HS30-H]

Kats,

I'd prefer to see the whole document, and make a better - and more measured - attempt at an interpretation, without losing the feeling of what Tamura san wrote.

These tasters are great, but maybe we can discuss this in depth after you have met Tamura san and Yoshida san on 31st? It would be nice to get more of the context behind the whole story.

I'm mindful that we could be getting a little too excited here. If we perceive any conflicting details in the personal stories of The Team ( and we should be in no doubt that this whole thing was a team effort ) then I think our job - as enthusiastic outsiders - is to steady the boat and take the broader view. If some of the players in the story have particular allegiances and differing loyalties, then we should try to see the situation from their perspectives too. I don't want us to be responsible for marginalising any of the players, or reigniting old flames of conflict. All of these guys are heroes to me. I want to hear all of their stories. I think the 'truth' will lie somewhere in the middle of all of their stories, and I'm certainly not forgetting the engineers ( like Uemura, Benitani and Kamahara ). Let's give them all the benefit of the doubt. Eventually, we will know the 'truth' when we see it

One thing that comes through from Tamura san's story so far ( thank you Kats! ) is the feeling that the design soon took on a life of it's own. All the effort, energy, dreams and hopes invested in it took hold, and it became bigger than all of them both as individuals and as a team. I think man's great creations that 'work' can do that.

It's some kind of extra supernatural magic. Like capturing lightning in a bottle.....

Alan T.

[Carl Beck]

Hi Guys:

Looking at the pictures below - would you say that these are pictures of the same person taken perhaps a few years between, and showing the face at a slightly different camera angle... Or would two people working at Nissan Design just happen to look so much alike?

The eyes and nose look the same, the height of the person looks about the same and eye brows look about the same - although one pictures shows a guy messed up at work and the other shows a guy dressed for a picture with his hair combed...

Same guy or not?

FWIW,

Carl B.

[kats]

Alan,

Thank you for this important point of view.I also have been same feelings about this topic.I totally agree with you.

Carl,the man on the right is Mr.Nishikawa.Japanese book you and I have is wrong like Alan said.

The left young man,I will ask Mr.Tamura on 31th.

Attached image is a scan of a letter from Mr.Tamura,he typed it then he added by his pen.

kats

[kats]

Here is a Mr.Tamura's hand drawing.

This is one of his design work.

kats

[26th-Z]

Hi Stephen:

He seems to be seeking mention now.

Doesn't 'seem' that way at all. Your'e making something out of thin air again.

Great pictures! Great topic, Kats!

[7T1240]

Hi kats and all. I've really enjoyed learning from this thread.

Those styles don't have that unique like the finished product. The 'roadster' has that 'Jaguar' look the people always tag these cars with as the type C seems to have more of the 'Ferrari' look that they've also been tagged with.

Regarding the Type C design study - To me, when I look at the front grille area and some other details, I see quite a resemblance to the Maserati Ghibli.

Gary S.

[26th-Z]

Gary,

I had the chance to meet and talk with Matsuo-san in Long Beach at the ZCCA convention in 2004. He told us about how shocked he was to see the Maser at (I seem to remember) the 1967 auto show in Frankfurt as it resembled so closely what he was working on at the time.

Chris