Cash for Clunkers, the butchers bill...

[Walter Moore]

I haven't seen this posted anywhere else, and though it was depressing.

I downloaded the final U.S. Cash for Clunkers trade-in list and sorted it by make and model. (In its download form it is sorted by the new vehicle purchased for some reason...)

Our beloved government PAID to have 363 completely operational Nissan 300ZXs destroyed. (And 318 Toyota Supra's were "recycled" as well.)

Hope no one here wanted one of those for their collection.

(I will not discuss the BMW 850i total... )

[jmortensen]

Hey, the auto industry just needed a jumpstart. Now their sales are THROUGH THE ROOF, and it's all because of C4C. Or not.

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

[Arne]

(I will not discuss the BMW 850i total... )

The 850i (V12) was an expensive, ugly, unreliable pig and they all deserved to be crushed. The later 840i (V8) was cheaper, quicker and far more reliable. It was still ugly, however...

[JonnyRock]

The 850i (V12) was an expensive, ugly, unreliable pig and they all deserved to be crushed. The later 840i (V8) was cheaper, quicker and far more reliable. It was still ugly, however...

Ugly? I'll disagree on that one Arne. There are far too few coupe's with no B pillar. I love the look of that thing with all the windows rolled down.

[Arne]

The 8er's front end with hidden headlights has no style. ("Can you say, 'Pontiac Firebird?' Sure. I knew that you could.") And the rear is just as bland - could be an Accord coupe from the back. Give me an original 6er (preferably with euro-bumpers) any day. Like this one, perhaps...

[Arne]

Or if pillar-less coupes are important to you, the earlier BMW coupes (like this 3.0CSi) are much more beautiful. And much more expensive.

[Walter Moore]

The 850i (V12) was an expensive, ugly, unreliable pig and they all deserved to be crushed. The later 840i (V8) was cheaper, quicker and far more reliable. It was still ugly, however...

Wow! Looks like I struck a nerve!

Did you have a bad personal experience with the model in question?

I always liked the styling, and always wanted a V12... But I have no experience, with the 8 series, and am unlikely to ever plunk down the cost of one. Considering what a pain my son's 3 series was to repair, I have reservations about ever messing with another BMW period.

[Walter Moore]

Actually, I don't know if you trust Wikipedia, but according to this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_850

The 840 wasn't actually a later model than the 850. Apparently the 8 series was available with both motors until the end of production.

[Arne]

Wow! Looks like I struck a nerve!

Did you have a bad personal experience with the model in question?

Not as an owner, but as someone who worked on cars in those years. 850i's always needed tires (an odd size, very expensive, and the choices in that odd size only lasted 4,000 miles per set), and the owners were always griping about things that broke or didn't work. I never knew any of my customers that kept an 850i longer than a couple of years.

I always liked the styling, and always wanted a V12...

Everyone has different preferences, and if you liked it that's OK. I personally considered the styling very unimaginative and dull. Not surprising, considering the stodgy styling of the BMW sedans of the same vintage. E30s, E34s and such were also rather boring. Not so the previous models, nor the cars that came later. The late '80s and very early '90s BMWs had many virtues, but IMO good looks was not one of them.

And while V12s are exotic and cool in that way, for normal cars I've always thought they were needlessly complex and expensive. Why use a complex V12 when a similar size V8 will do the same job?

But I have no experience, with the 8 series, and am unlikely to ever plunk down the cost of one. Considering what a pain my son's 3 series was to repair, I have reservations about ever messing with another BMW period.

Now here I will need to disagree. I've owned 2 different 3ers, a graymarket '81 E21 323i (5 years) and a '96 E36 328i (7 years and counting). I've found both cars to be very easy and not all that expensive to maintain, as long as you shop around for parts and do the work yourself.

Actually, I don't know if you trust Wikipedia, but according to this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_850

The 840 wasn't actually a later model than the 850. Apparently the 8 series was available with both motors until the end of production.

According to what I saw there, the 850i was intro'd in '91, the 840CSi not until '93. That jives with my memory, which is definitely not infallible.

[Walter Moore]

Arne,

I love the styling of the 80's 6-series myself. By the way CFC crushed 67 of those cars as well. (Way less than the 1310 5-series cars that fell to the eco gods...)

Speaking of eco-madness, the 3 series that I hated working on was a 325es, which had the strange low-revving "economy" motor. (4500 RPM red-line with a timing belt instead of the normal timing chain, sort of the opposite approach to the L24...) That may have been the source of our repair problems. It was difficult to find parts for because it wasn't very popular in the U.S.

The catalytic converter was nearly $500 aftermarket, for example, and it took two people to change the starter because it was mounted with through bolts and nuts. One of us had to lay under the car to hold a deep well socket and several extensions on the nuts while the other used a socket (with extensions) to turn the bolts from the top. To reach some bolts on the back side of the engine took literally 4 feet of socket extensions. I also had to buy all new sockets because most bolts used an externally toothed TORX head style.

If I never have to work on another car like that again it would be too soon.

(It was fun to drive on the other hand...)

[Arne]

My 323i was a 2.3 liter normal tuned (6500 RPM), 140 HP version of that same belt-driven-cam small six. The eta motor you had was torquey but uninspiring. The 2.3 liter on the other hand was a kick! A really sweet motor. Every bit as nice as our L24s, and one of the reasons I learned to love inline sixes.