Rust elimination

[Alfadog]

Hi

I've got several spots of rust on my car (all exterior), a few nasty scratches and small dents, and several panels out of whack (probably the last owner's sandblasting job?) and I'd like to get rid of it all. Before I go to some panelbeating place, how much is this likely to cost?

I've attached a picture detailing everything.

With rust, why exactly do people insist on replacing with metal instead of bondo? I imagine bondo is much cheaper but if there is a logical reason for the metal then I will fork out extra for that.

The panels are not bent as such, but rather they're warped. Can you fix that without having to repaint the whole panel?

Most of the scratches are just that, and can be sanded down and repainted I think. The only place which might need some panel beating is at the rear, just under the numberplate. Also right up the front just above the tie-down hook it's all bent upwards - obviously someone thought it was a tow-hook

It's a hard job being a perfectionist :stupid:

[Alfadog]

By the way, that's not my car in the photos - thanks Silver72 (I think thats your handle..)

[Mr Camouflage]

Alfadog. Would you want a car made out of Bondo? I dont think so. Most of this stuff is light weight polystyrene based putty. Obviously not as strong as metal. (Bondo is the putty you mix with harder and smear on the pannels right? otherwise known as bog.)

If you've seen and old car thats been bogged up and resprayed you'd understand why you'd want to do it properly. The bog tends to promote more rust (I suppose by absorbing and retaining moisture under the paint). Then you get the rust causing the bog to blister up as it expands resulting in the uneven lumps in the paint.

So this is why when buying a car I always favour cars that still have thier original paint jobs.

If you ever had a bingle, most pannel shops just hammer the high spots flat bog it up, sand it smooth and paint it. Where as a propper restoration body shop can actually pannel beat the pannels back to the original shape so that little or no bog is needed. They can also cut out the rusty sections and weld in and shape new metal sections.

My dads old L300 is a perfect example. It has rusty sections as big as your head where the bondo has fallen off the car because the pannel underneath has rusted.

I used bondo on my 240z when i was 17 because I didn't know any better, but I would have hated to see what condition it was in about 5 years later. (I sold it after about 3 I think).

What do you mean the pannel has warped. Is the pannel not aligned correctly? Has your car ever been in an accident?

Mr C

[kmack]

Alfadog,

In your picture, you outline the doors, hood (bonnet, I forget I'm a Texan sometimes!), hatch, access panels as being bent. Where are they bent or are they just not aligned?

As for the scratches, you can sand the paint and the scratches down. But if the scratches are deep, you may need a light putty filler (usually comes in a tube) to fill the area slightly. It's a pretty easy process to do by yourself.

As for the rust, the areas you show and typical. On the lower fenders, if the scratches on top are deep ones, it'd be easier to just replace the fenders. The wheel arches are going to be a little tough and it's best to let a body/restoration shop tackle those. The area underneath your hatch is a place I had to deal with on my car. I actually have write-up on making a repair section for that exact spot (except on the other side) on my website. I'm in the process of re-writing it for this site, but that'll take another few days.

As for using bondo or replacing the metal, go with the metal. Bondo will work good but only if it's applied correctly and the metal underneath is prepped correctly. To use bondo, the metal must sealed first before the bondo is applied. DO NOT APPLY BONDO TO BARE METAL! Over time the metal will absorb moisture from the opposite side (through the metal, think osmosis) and will begin to rust under the bondo. Then it all peels up. Also, bondo should not be applied to areas that will require more than 1/8" or 3/16" thick. If Bondo is deeper than that, then you need to shape the metal more.

If you can afford it, definitely go with a shop that does professional restoration work. They will have the knowledge, ability, and pride to do the job right.

[Alfadog]

The panels I've been told are warped - this is especially evident with the hatch lid as at the top it's fine then at the bottom left it's sticking up half an inch and on the right it's fine. Where the hatch attaches on the right there are a few spacers and on the left there is one or two.

The bonnet sticks up at the front right, down at the rear left, normal at the rear right and up a little bit at the front left.

The bonnet flaps have that typical bow in the middle of them where people push them to close, and hte one on the left is a bit too far to the left.

The doors stick out at the bottom but fine everywhere else...

I think replacing the front left fender (my dad hates me saying that - he's anti-american ) might be the way to go - there are a hell of a lot of little scratches and it's been panel beaten in the past as the crease in the bodywork is a bit wobbly.

I look forward to seeing your tutorial kmack!

I guess I'll ask about it when I go quote-hunting next week.

[kmack]

I look forward to seeing your tutorial kmack!

Alfadog,

If you go to the home page on my website, I put a link to the first write-up I did. It's about midway down the page under the picture of my car. That way you can at least look at it and get a feel for what is involved.

As for the access panels being warped, you can take them off and slowly work the warp out. But be careful. I have 2 extra sets. One set is kinked (first attempt) and the 2nd set is just right. They flew a little; just enough to get them back into shape. But work it slowly. Find a junk set somewhere to practice on first, get a feel for it.

[beandip]

In the pics. you pointed out the lower part of t he fenders on both sides. the best advise I can give you is to pull the fenders off. What you will find is that there is a drain that drains the cowl and dumps the water in a void in that area , there is supposed to be a little opening at the bottom but debris will clog the hole and not allow it to drain properly . This is also a cause of the rocker pannel to rust under the doors. I am in the process of doing the vary thing after seeing my friends car and what he found in that area. It is a design flaw in my openion, because if leaf matter and dirt cloggs the drain at the bottom it is a major rust problem and the metal is only primed there at the factory thats all. The cowl drain is about an inch and a quorter in size but it dumps on to a shelf and then down into a void. As far a "bondo"it was never ment to be used like plaster and filled large voids. I will never use it if it is not backed by metal because it needs to be sealed from the back , like through a hole, it should be only used in thin ammounts and spairingly . Lazy body pounders are the ones that give it a bad name.

[Alfadog]

okey dokey!

I was going to do that anyway, cos I read it (possibly you said it) in another topic about rust prevention...

Thanks guys! I'll keep you posted

[smg1404]

There are many reasons.. Bondo tends to cause more rust eventually... Bondo is heavy, Bondo tends to crack and split with age. Bondo is not structural.

[smg1404]

I just looked at your pictures.... I cannot see anything that needs repair... Your car looks very clean..

[Alfadog]

No one's going to take pictures of the bad spots mate

[Mr Camouflage]

Hey Alfa

In regards to your panels being out of whack, All you really need to do is get a mate and some spanners and loosen up the bolts and rehang the pannels correctly. The last owner was probably lazy and didn't do it properly after repainting it. I see what you mean about your bonnet not lining up propperly.

Mr C

P.S. So what does your dad call fenders then?