Jumping in with 2

[kenz240z]

I haven't had any direct experience with soda blasting yet, but it appears to be a good way to go to strip paint from a panel without having to worry about damaging chrome or other trim. I haven't converted my sand blaster to a soda blaster or purchased a dedicated soda blaster because I find it easy enough to use the DA with 40 grit or 80 grit discs to remove the old paint and strip a panel to bare metal. And while it is dusty and messy (definitely wear a good respirator mask when sanding) I can contain most of the dust by using an old shop vac while sanding to suck up the dust.

Soda blasting and sand blasting are rather messy. If you do it yourself I'd definitely recommend doing the blasing outside, otherwise you will forever be cleaning your shop.

Have you gotten the engine in either car to run? If so, you might consider driving the car a bit to get a feel for it. Please be sure to do any necessary brake/suspension/steering work first so that the car is safe to drive. With 2 cars, hopefully you can have one as a driver while you work on the other.

The engine and tranny can be pulled together, just remove the radiator and fan first to gain a little extra clearance. And be sure to drain the oil from the engine and the tranny fluid from the tranny first. Draining the engine oil isn't as much of a concern as draining the tranny, it's just that otherwise the tranny will leak fluid out the drive shaft end when it is tilted for removal. Harbor Freight sells a plastic "plug" of sorts that fits into the end of a tranny to seal it up an prevent fluid spill, but I haven't used one on a Z car tranny and don't know if it fits or not. I have an end from an old drive shaft that does the job for me.

If you don't have an adjustable engine sling to use with the cherry picker, be sure to get one. I will allow you to tilt the engine/tranny and make the removal and installation processes a lot easier! You can see the sling in the attached photos.

[ajmcforester]

AJM - Thanks for the information. I'll block the vehicle good before I pull the motor. The tranny is disconnected and I just need the motor stand bolts.

Once I get the motor out I'm going to remove everything from the exterior, interior, suspension, etc. You lost me on the support and alignment part. Do I need to weld some square tubing across the front of the motor from frame rail to frame rail right now while the motor is still in it? So that it's "aligned"?

Arnie

Cars with uni-body construction the whole car flexes a little with the weight. Now we have seen on Overhaulen and other shows them putting the engine in the last munite, well that is because they have a frame and the body does not flex (within reason). You don't need to put supports in the engine bay unless your cutting any of the panels out for repair or replacement. However you need to brace the car when you take the floor pans out and I'd recommend putting the engine in so the car will sit right, brace the car then take it out again. If you do that your door gaps will match better when your done.

I judged "professional" restored corvettes that didn't have this done when repairs were made and they lost many points on the gaps not being up to par. Nothing like paying 15-20Gs to have it done wrong.

[ajmcforester]

The soda seems to be the way to go. I met a guy in the Gloucester City Ratrod club, he wanted a rust finish without rust scales, so I told him about browning methods used on firearms (firearms were treated with a chemical to start rusting then another to stop the rust creating a protective layer, called browning, it is not widely used now that blueing is cheaper). Well he had it soda-blasted and the chemicals would not start the rusting on the panels that where soda blasted. Last I new he was trying acid etch to get the surface to wear he can rust the panel.

[ArnieTX]

Kenny - I decided just to tear car #1 down and make a Z that will follow me to my grave. It will probably take me that long to finish it anyway.... . I will tinker with car#2 to see if I can get it going when fundage $$$ for car #1 gets low. #2 is the answer to the puzzle when #1 comes apart.

Got home late tonight and decided I needed to get out of the house. Work has been nuts and I've not been near my barn in a couple days.

Made some progress:

Little rusty:

I bet I caused this. Is this the rear main seal? It's not rubber but some sort of softer metal.

This weekend I'm going to pull the tranny out, pull off the front fenders and headlight buckets, and clean out the engine bay so I can see where all the rust is. Keep trucking!

Thanks

Arnie

[Darrel]

That part is the pilot bushing for the input shaft of the transmission. It should come with the clutch kit.

The rear main seal goes around the outer diameter of the crank shaft end.

[ajmcforester]

I thought you'd see more rust on your clutch surfaces than that. the battery area don't look that well, that I've heard is a hard yet common area to repair. I've seen a lot worse, I think another 5 years out side like it was and it would have been scrap, maybe even less that two.

[ArnieTX]

Car # 2 has a perfect battery area. I'm going to try to fabricate something myself but I guess I always have the option of cutting out the battery area in that one if I can bring myself to do it.

Arnie

[ajmcforester]

I think that might be the best bet to cut out the spot welds for the tray, but the inner fender you will more than likely make patch panels to replace rusted areas.

[ArnieTX]

Car #1 , the one I'm taking apart and is my primary candidate at the moment, appears to have been in an accident on the drivers side frontal area at some time. I say this because I see wrinkles in the inner fender and the frame rail is not perfectly straight. It has a slightly bent or compressed area. I took a tape measure and measured the drivers side versus the passenger side from the firewal to various spots to the radiator support area and come up with 1/4"to 1/2" off. Car #2 measures with an 8th of an inch in the same areas but has obvious patches/repairs along the frame rail from a previous collision. I have this weird fantasy about having straight frame rails with no rust or patches.

My measurments were not perfect but close enough to highlight the issue. So my questions are:

1. What is the best way to handle a frame rail that is not straight?

2. Am I getting to the point where it might be cheaper to use my 2-$300 S1 parts cars on a cleaner S1 body rather than repairing one? I've been keeping my eyes peeled and I know it's a matter of time before I find something.

Car #1 gets rougher and rougher as I pull off more panels. Rusty holes are popping up in more areas.

Thanks for your input

Arnie

[oldhemi]

ArneTx, I am almost in the same boat as you concerning rust. But, I have no dents on my early 260Z. I am the original owner.

I have seen a lot of threads with pictures of rust repair on the hybridz site along with this site. With money being no object or a lot of experience by the owner, I have seen some real POS's being repaired. Didja notice that rust is like cockroaches? You poke at one small spot of rust and there is 10 times more than you expected! You either suck it up and fix it to the best of your ability/wallet or close it down.

I dont want to discourage you, but your cars are going to require a lot of money and time. They could be good parts cars - especially if you stick with 240's. The 75-78 280's have enough differences that you could be going backwards mechanically picking parts off these 2.

You gotta ask yourself how much money or time do you want to spend? Its evident that you already have started this process.

IMHO, you need to see if you have a motor/trans that are good between the 2. Then, maybe study the brakes and suspension situation. You will be at least taking mental notes of where and how bad the rust is as you go along. As long as the process is fun, then you are ahead at this point. Nothing wrong with having a safe decent running ugly car. Some welding and use of sheetmetal and fiberglass might get you going.

[ajmcforester]

To repair that rail you will need a frame straightener, and since it is a unibody you need one with a body jig, not something you want to tackle.

My car had some work done in the same spot, but was not full done properly. I plan to take her in and have a restoration shop do the body for me, you got to remember I found a car were the only rust was two pin holes in the rear panel and light surface rust under the battery around the drain plug around the spare tire, and a light surface rust near the sound pad on the floor on the passenger side. The roof is also badly rippled. I'm taking her to the best restoration shop in the Philly area it will cost about 5G to repair the roof (that's all hammer and Dolly work more than an amateur body mechanic like me can do) and 3,500 to repair the inner fender panel drive-side, no rail damage. If they can't repair that panel to weld a new inner panel section will cost about 4,000 and I need to get the section at that price.

To fix the inner fend on my car, they will need to use a frame puller just setup for that is 1,000 if that helps you figure in cost. Now the hard part is how much rust is their on your car? You might want to look around for an Arizona car that's just a shell. The other thing is maybe you could get a restoration shop to come over and give you an assessment of what is needed, not a body shop, restoration shops cost more but they are less likely to take shortcuts. If your going to need frame structure repair you might need to use them, they would have the equipment right their. If you go any farther you might want to see about getting a shop involved from time to time when you need their help (I am, I learned from the first 240z I did it's worth it at times).

You also might want to look at the cars for sale their is a white 71 for 11,500 in the classifieds section of this site. If you stop not consider the #1 car since you started on it will become a parts car no two ways about it. Any-other way you would be lucky to have someone take it cars that are partly taken apart, no one wants. I hate to say it let us know if your going to part it out I know you have parts I need. Depending on work and the time of year, I might fly down to help disassemble the car to collect the fasteners.

I'll let you know just about everyone goes threw this realization of what they have no car looks as good as you think, and your finding it out. If you keep going and you don't compromise what you want out of the car the more work and time and money used the more you will enjoy it when it is done. You will have about 5-10 more times when restoring it that you will fell like this, especially when you start doing the tedious tasks that take time, like cleaning out seam sealer or polishing all the small parts. . . but you will have a day weir you might be wearing the headlight bucket on your head (don't ask me why but it seems every Z car restoration someone hast to put that on their head, I think it's the chemicals??). Just don't have someone convince you to compromise what you want otherwise don't do the restoration it won;t be worth it.

[IdahoKidd]

If you do a straight up cost/benefit analysis, you'll find it is less expensive (out of pocket and timewise) to find a better shell to start with. This is a great exploration project and a priceless excercise, use the knowlegde and zest you've gained on these cars and used it on a different one.

Keep in mind I am poor and very utilitarian.