Jumping in with 2

[ArnieTX]

AJM

I bought small gauge a while back, 18 I believe, and I butt welded it fine. The metal in the back of this Z must be a lot thinner.

[geezer]

I bought a copper tool from Harbor Freight today to see if it will help in the welding process. I'm also looking into a gas setup for my welder. More to come and thanks for the advice so far. I'm still enjoying the process.

I guess it all depends on the capabilities of your welding equipment but with a little practice you should be able to fill gaps the size shown in your last 2 pics by using a copper backing tool. I have several different ones that I use for different situations, but find the more substantial hefty ones with some weight to them work the best. I make use of the large copper punch/drift in the pic below most often. (It does double duty removing universal joints too.) Just dip it regularly in the can of nozzle dip to keep it cool and prevent slag from building up. Exercising patience and a clean work piece helps a great deal too.

[Z Speed]

Thanks for the response Arnie. No, I didn't see that thread. Thanks for the link....

Scott-

[ArnieTX]

Thanks Geezer.

The more I read the more it appears that gas really helps on thin sheet metal. I'm debating on whether I upgrade my little Lincoln Weld Pak 100 to gas for $150 bucks or buy a better welder. Where I live it's hard to find Lincoln parts but Hobart is everywhere. And Hobart seems to have some nice machines. Living on a farm I could use a heavier machine anyway.

Thanks

[geezer]

I am the last guy that should give advise on welding machines. I have forgot more than I know and they are also constantly evolving. A few years ago, I got aggravated enough blowing holes through thin metal, that I just walked into the local welding supply store and explained the problem. I wanted a MIG welder that could best handle thinner metal. I already had larger machines for other purposes capable of handling thicker material. The Millermatic 140 was what I went out the door with. I dropped about $1000 CND by the time I bought all the basic extras needed. This machine has the ability to fine set the wire speed as well as the heat settings, not just a high/low switch. My other MIG is great for heavier jobs and I used it to build my rotisserie, but it caused me a lot of grief on thin metal. I suggest you talk to a few guys in the business of using them as well as reputable sales people who can explain the nuances of the different machines available. I really am just a guy who learns to use what hes got, and not up on the best available today. I suggest gaining some insight by visiting a welding forum, searching and asking about preferences. The last sentence in your last post made me think you don't have enough information to select the right machine yet. Although a heavier machine would be beneficial on the farm for other uses, it probably isn't the best choice for welding thin metal.

Edited July 28, 2010 by geezer

[ajmcforester]

Thanks Geezer.

The more I read the more it appears that gas really helps on thin sheet metal. I'm debating on whether I upgrade my little Lincoln Weld Pak 100 to gas for $150 bucks or buy a better welder. Where I live it's hard to find Lincoln parts but Hobart is everywhere. And Hobart seems to have some nice machines. Living on a farm I could use a heavier machine anyway.

Thanks

I'd talk a couple good welding supply stores. I think you want one with a lot of adjustment so you can do well with thin or thick metal. Miller had one I almost picked up, for 3Gs it was a MIG/TIC combo designed for contractors to do small jobs in finished homes and building. It would have been perfect for me, but I get to barrow one for free which is always better, I just fill the tank. It might be good for you to look at a good unit they can last you a life time and more.

[pwd]

MIG welding, using small "tack" beads spaced around the work to prevent heat distortion, is the best way to weld in sheet metal patches.

Another method, not mentioned, is bronze brazing. It uses less heat than oxy-acetylene torch welding, therefore less distortion to the surrounding metal, and is plenty strong for non-critical repairs.

[ArnieTX]

I've been reading the heck out of the welding forums, that's what pushed me to the Hobart gear. + I like the fact that I can buy parts and supplies branded by them out here in the sticks. Good advice on talking around though, I know a few locals who weld for a living and I'm going to see if I can run a few beads on their gear.

There's an almost brand new Miller TIG on craigslist locally. He only wants $800 for it. I'd like to have a TIG.

I hit the car a little more last night. I can spot weld with the flux okay if the panels have a tight fit. But it's messy looking.

[ajmcforester]

I prefer TIG, I found it easier. That probably from the fact that I learned to weld with gas first. The only problem is it can be a pain in slightly tight areas or spots that you haft to get into that aren't comfortable to work in. In patch paneling their is a lot of advantages, like better control of filler material that aids with gap variances, and tighter welds for less grinding. Of coarse a wire feed with foot control on a MIG would take care of most of those advantages away, but I have never been lucky enough to try a foot control on a MIG the dollars realy start to go up at that point.

[ArnieTX]

Update:

I went to a buddy's house a week or so ago and tried out his MIG with gas. It was superior to my Fluxcore.

I received my Gas Conversion Kit and converted my fluxcore Lincoln Weldpak 100 to gas tonight. I purchased a tank of 75/25 from the local hardware store and played around with it. The difference between how easy the gas is versus fluxcore is night and day. With the fluxcore at the lowest setting for power and and different wire speeds I could not bridge the larger gaps in the panel and I would blow through the metal quite often. With the gas set between 12-15lbs , I could crank up the heat all the way to C (A is minimum) with a wire speed of 5 and weld the larger gaps. I found B-5 to be a pretty good setting. The "A" setting was too low for this particular piece I'm welding in. It's good to know I can turn the power down if needed. With Fluxcore I couldn't turn the power down any more.

If you have a fluxcore welder you should seriously consider converting it to gas for thin sheetmetal apps. I'm happy with this setup. All I have to do now is figure out the best way to grind welds down like a pro. I'm getting there!

Thanks for everyone's input.

[oldhemi]

Yup, Geezer is too modest. He has been helping me decide on which welder to git. But I am a slow pupil - I have trouble with solder - wife used to do it for me. She wont crawl under sinks and such any more though.............

[hall.nathan89]

I realize that it's been almost 18 months since the last post to this thread, but I ran accross this the other day and it's been killing me ever since. WHAT HAPPENED?!?! Are there pictures? Are you still working on these? Are you still documenting it? Sorry to stir up an old puddle, but the curiosity is just too much for me to handle...