Not Armourall ???????

[1 Bravo 6]

:stupid: :stupid: :stupid:

Had an interesting conversation yesterday with the body trimmer that has recovered my ZED'S seats.

He advised me NOT to use silicon based spray on vinyl protection.

Said that it was great stuff to begin with but, after quite a few years, (particularly if it's parked in the sun a lot), it MIGHT actually CAUSE vinyl to crack as the hot sun's rays passing through the windscreen can heat the silicon film, causing the vinyl to bake and eventually crack.

I didn't know whether to believe him or not.

Has anyone else heard about this??????????

Rick.

[peterc]

I've heard complaints about Armourall as well. I've used it in the past but was never really very happy with the results. I found it to be rather greasy feeling to the touch and attracted dust like mad. But I must say I never personally experienced any cracking.

However, I very recently bought an '83 ZX that had been sitting in a field for 8 years. The dash is badly cracked. I asked the PO (previous owner) if the dash as cracked when she parked it and if she had ever used Armourall. It wasn't, and she had. So was it the Armourall or just 8 years of sitting in a field?

One last note. I have a firend that collects older American muscle cars ( to each their own) and he has nothing nice to say about Armourall. He uses baby oil, says it penetrates and protects the vinyl whereas Armourall strips it. On the other hand baby oil doesn't have any UV protection, so who knows !?

[Alfadog]

Well 1B6, what did he suggest using ?!

[owenk]

Sorry to disappoint you all but dashes have be cracking long before Armor All came on the seen. I do not know if long turn use of Armor All is good or bad but I do know that before Armor All the dash on my 66 Dodge looked like crap. (this was in 73) We all need to start searching the internet for believable testing results on Armor All and other products.

Owen K

[2ManyZs]

I think EScanlon posted a reply a while back on some better products than ArmorAll to use on the vinyl and dash. If you are curious you could PM him as I did a search for the post and came up empty-handed.......

ArmorAll might be better used on todays cars that have plastic dashes. Big difference in todays plastics and the vinyls of older cars.....

[EScanlon]

This is one of the prior posts:

http://www.240z.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2006

I couldn't find another one I had mentioning various products.

Let me state my displeasure with Armor All in this manner:

Armor All is HEROIN for your Vinyl, Rubber and Plastic trim pieces.

As long as you maintain a periodic schedule of ALWAYS putting it on and never exposing your car to sunlight, air or shade, you'll be fine. The problem with Armor All is that when you STOP using it, in very VERY short order, lots of problems surface.

I myself used to use the stuff, and I ruined an otherwise pristine dash on a 76 Mercury Capri II, simply because I couldn't maintain the weekly fix that I had gotten the car used to. In a period of 3 months, while in the Air Force's Basic Training and Technical School, my dash went from soft and bright colored to chalky haze, cracked, pitted and HARD!

I researched the stuff and asked several people about it, but the best education I got on the subject came when the company I worked for began extruding clear PVC plastic in rolls.

The active ingredient in Armor All is Silicone Oil. This binds to the various PVC Polymer Molecular Chains present in Vinyl. These are also (loosely) called the elastomeric component of the vinyl, i.e. the key stuff to maintain vinyl soft and elastic. Another name for these elastomeric components is Plasticizers. i.e. the component that makes the material PLASTIC.

Silicone Oil is very susceptible to UV radiation and evaporation. When it does dissipate, leaving behind Silicone which makes it next to impossible to paint the part, it also takes with it the elastomer from the vinyl. The loss of this elastomer causes the vinyl to decompose, and be even more susceptible to UV Radiation, as well as become slightly "harder".

It isn't ONE application that causes the problem, it's the continued applications over time that eventually cause the problem, which becomes noticeable WHEN YOU STOP USING THE STUFF! Like I said, like Heroin, as long as you maintain the supply of the drug, and you are careful not to overdose, you can go on for years, but stop ONCE, and ..........

My favorite product, Clear Guard by Turtle Wax, is unfortunately, no longer available. In fact, it's strength lay in the fact that you did NOT need to apply it once a week. And unfortunately, therein lay it's demise, it didn't sell like Armor All.

In my 89 Acura Legend, the last time I applied Clear Guard was June of LAST year, when I took the car to DEQ and new plates. The dash looks clean and feels soft and smooth to this day.

The only product that I've encountered so far with which I feel has the same feel, ease, and longevity of Clear Guard is the one by the POR 15 folks. It's called Boss Gloss and it really does an excellent job.

The bottle DOES carry a warning, it says:

"Not for use on ..."(omitted) "...surfaces where a slippery finish could be hazardous. Do not use on or near clear plastic or plexiglass surfaces, glass (may cause smearing), fabric, woven materials or paint."

The omitted text deals with the specific surfaces it advises AGAINST being used on. Pedals, grips, steering wheels, beach or cycle seats, tires, brake drums are mentioned. Obviously, it does leave a smooth slippery finish and the manufacturers do not want to be sued because you lost control of your vehicle due to the slippery finish. (Like that one idiot who put armor all on his TIRES!)

The front of the bottle does state:

"Boss Gloss does not contain alcohols or other solvents that remove plasticizers from Vinyl and Rubber"

Which is exactly the problem with Armor All.

There, I'll get off my soap box, BUT just a note on the following.

Baby Oil, Vaseline, and those otherwise "cheap" products will work, if all you want is shine and slippery. However, they are very prone to collecting DUST and DIRT and leaving residue on anything that touches that surface, as well as the smell. However, the main problem with these products is that they do NOT include any UV Ray protection.

UV Rays are by far the biggest cause of cracked vinyl and plastic parts there is, PERIOD!

This is due to the chemical formulation for plastic and vinyl, and not anything else. The C in PVC, stands for Chloride which is a permutation of Chlorine. (PVC=PolyVinylChloride)

Chlorine is one of those elements which can readily bond with many substances, and sometimes all it takes for the chlorine to lose it's "bond" with whatever substance it's currently mixed with, is for it to come into contact with another substance that it likes better.

The Sodium in Sodium Chloride (salt) loses to Aluminum very readily. That's why they don't use salt to de-ice planes or runways or anything near Aluminum skinned aircraft.

Chlorine can also get "excited" by the UV rays which hit it. When Chlorine gets excited in this manner it very readily bonds with the Hydrogen in the air. The ensuing compound is called H-Cl, or Hydrochloric Acid. How about a nice Hydrochloric Acid wash for your dash?

The key thing for protecting your dash, isn't slipperiness, or non-greasy, it's UV protection. That's why owenk is correct about dashes cracking long before Armor All. That dashes crack is due to their being made from plastic and vinyl and not because of Armor All. The problem with Armor All is that it purports to protect your dash, while making it MORE susceptible to the problem!

Sorry for the length, hope this makes it clear.

[Rogersz]

Has any one tried "MOTHERS" preserves protectant with any success. It claims 30 days UV protection among other things but it does contain silicon emulsion.

Rogersz

[owenk]

Ok I have a big secret to let out about Armor All to all you Dads with boys in Cub Scouts. If you have a son in Cub Scouts you may have heard of the Pinewood derby. Well it turns out that if you soak the wheels in Armor All night before the race. Then let them air "dry" for ~2 hrs before the race your son's car will take first place unless someone else knows the trick! My two boys took 1st and 2nd every year then when my sons moved out of scouts I let the secret out to a good friend. His sons take 1st & 2nd! What is amazing is that it is not by inches but feet! So now the world knows!!!

[2ManyZs]

Well, so much for the scout motto huh??

[Gav240z]

Thanks for the info I don't think I'll ever use Armour All again after reading your informative response. I'd heard others mention it's unhealthy for your dash and I thought it was just skeptical nonsense (excuse my spelling). It does make your dash wet and look healthy but your right it requires constant reapplication. I'll invest my money in a good sunshade for now.

Anyway that aside I'll go for the other products your recommend.

[norcal z]

Originally posted by EScanlon

The active ingredient in Armor All is Silicone Oil. This binds to the various PVC Polymer Molecular Chains present in Vinyl. These are also (loosely) called the elastomeric component of the vinyl, i.e. the key stuff to maintain vinyl soft and elastic. Another name for these elastomeric components is Plasticizers. i.e. the component that makes the material PLASTIC.

Upon reading this, I ran to get my bottle of STP Son Of A Gun! Protectant, to read the label. Lo and behold, it says it's a polymer silicone formula. It sounds as if this is similar to Armor All. I've used it for years on various cars because it doesn't seem to attract dust like AA, and it's not as slippery. Guess I'll have to start using somehting else now.

ES, do you have any info on this product? TIA.

[1 Bravo 6]

It took awhile but I finally found it.

The post I referred to was written by a member that I have a lot of respect for, so I'm inclined to take his word for it.

Rick.