Not Armourall ???????

[26th-Z]

Once again, I'll post this link to Car Care Specialties. http://www.carcareonline.com/howto.aspx

I do this every time someone asks about Armor-all and vinyl / rubber treatment. I posted it on the current dash cracked thread and this post marks the umpteenth time I've posted the link. What??? Don't you guys read? Or is it that you hate me, think I'm a total smart-arse, and wouldn't listen if I told you my car was green? I read a thread on another site recently claiming brake fluid was good to get tires black!!!! O M G !!!

Thank you, EScanlon! For posting a very thorough explanation - with passion! Perhaps just linking is not passionate enough? The same information is available on the Car Care site as well as a rather large choice of products to buy. Lexol, Mothers, 3M, and my favorite - One Grand. I have actually soaked hard rubber back to soft with some of these products.

You guys listen to EScanlon Stay away from silicon oil. Bad, bad, bad.

[ChrisA]

I took Bambikiller's advice and got some Boss Gloss from the POR15 website. Its a good product with no silicone. Some of you may have tried it and not liked it but with all the products out there its like the motor oil analogy. Product A versus Product B. To each his own.

But, I dont use Armor All, never have never will. On a side note, my wife's 240SX has had its dash hit with lemon Pledge since 1990. Nice smell and nice results. Granted the dash is not the same material.

FWIW,

Chris

[Carl Beck]

Hi Guys:

I have used Armor-All and nothing but Armor-All on my dash since it was new in 1972. No cracks to date. I have applied it per the directions, about three times a year. I don't comprehend anyone applying it weekly.

For that matter, I've used Armor-All on all my Classic, Collectible and Special Interest Cars since 1970. Never had any problems..

All the antidotal reports... seem sadly lacking in scientific proof including my own.

Nonetheless... your hearing it directly from me... not repeated from a friend of a friend... and I started using the product on a known good dash... not an unknown 20+ year old dash, not a dash subjected to a cocktail of chemicals prior to using Armor-All...

One new dash, one owner, one product for 33 years... perfect dash (72 240-Z)

One new dash, two owners, one product for 33 years...perfect dash (72 240-Z)

One new dash, one owner, one product for 14 years.. perfect dash (91 T-Bird SC)

I would like someone to direct me to where they found the list of ingredients, with percentages of total -officially listed for Armor-All either by its manufacturer, or a reliable scientific testing facility. As far as I can see, it's a trade secrete.

How can anyone state factually that the active ingredient in Armor-All is "silicone oil"...???? (it could be..if there is such a thing ... I don't know...I want proof not repeated stories.. shouldn't we all???).

Urban Myths.... I agree with Owen K.. we need believable testing results.. conducted by a disinterested third party to reasonable scientific standards. I'd like some factual information from a source that isn't selling a competing product, or starting Urban Myths about their competition.

FWIW,

Carl

Carl Beck

Clearwater, FL USA (does anyone get more UV than us?)

http://ZHome.com

[EScanlon]

Not hoping to fuel the flames of a war, as I hope this is NOT one. I trust that we can have an intelligent discussion (NOT an argument) over this.

I searched for the Material Safety Data Sheet required by the Federal Government (U.S.A.). This information is also on the DOD Hazardous Material Information sheet. Here's the URL for the sheet on Armor All Protectant:

http://msds.pdc.cornell.edu/msds/MSDSDOD/A119/M59075.htm#Section2

If you look at the second ingredient listed: SILICONE EMULSION, you can then do a search on SILICONE EMULSION if you need further clarification as to what it entails. In my experience working with various solvents, cleaners, and other materials as a Hazardous Material Compliance Monitor for the Air Force, the MSDS's do not require a FORMULA to be given, but a generic classification of the main ingredient within that part of the compound below which it is proprietary to list content. Fancy gobbleydigoop to say that as long as you call out the major component by use of their classification tables you can then not give out your formula.

SILICONE is the key word to denote that the product / component is formulated WITH and PRIMARILY silicone.

This is the URL for a complete listing of Armor All DOD reports

http://msds.pdc.cornell.edu/msdsdoddata.asp

Here's the link I used to find MSDS's on-line.

http://www.ilpi.com/msds/

I hope this helps to clarify whether or not Armor All contains Silicone or not.

Enrique

[240ZX]

What ever kind of issues, be they fact or fiction good or bad, concerning the product Armor All.....The point is; the stuff is like EScanlon says (HEROIN to vinyl), if you don't continue using the stuff it will suck the life out of rubber and vinyl. No one needs a bunch of technical data to prove the point, just experiece! I visited the Armor All web page and read thier claims, unfortunitly there are no warnings about the results of discontinued use....go figure!!!! Did you read the headline about the freak who used Armor All on his blow-up doll.....he heard the product sucked! (a little humor)

[26th-Z]

I looked through the Cornell site, Enrique. Thanks for that link. It listed DOD reports for several manufacurers of vinyl care products, like Meguiars, but nothing specific to vinyl or rubber care products, like your Armor-All example. The DOD documents available for Mequiars products, for example, were all exterior wax products.

The question seems to have evolved to; "If not Armor-All, then what"? Some like the product while others object. The suggestion was made to find out what is in these products, whether they contain silicon or not, and what products are available.

I live in "car detail and polish land" and am fully aware of the diversity in products and opinion. My understanding of the general consensus is that silicon emulsions are common, inexpensive compounds used as replacement fillers for the natual off-gassing of vinyl. Over time, the silicon will accelerate the off-gassing process by creating light reflection and differential heating of the material - hot spots. There are much better materials (although more expensive) to use than silicon for the same purpose - replacing the "evaporated" vinyl and preventing it from drying, shrinking, and becoming brittle. These materials will allow the vinyl to expand and contract through heat cycles much better than the common and inexpensive silicon material.

So here are some products I would like to know about. What is in them?

One Grand Do-It-All Protectant

Meguiars #39 Vinyl Cleaner

Meguiars #40 Vinyl and Rubber Conditioner

Lexol Vinylex Protectant

Zymol Vinyl Conditioner

Harly Interior Magic

Lets get out the search engines and check this out. Who knows what we will find, but I would sure like to know if some of these products I just listed contain silicon emulsion. I have used the One Grand products for a while and decided to try the Lexol. I like the Lexol a little better.

[Carl Beck]

Hi Chris:

Try this: http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/index.htm

Silicone Oil:

Armor-All Protectant 35-50%

Meguiars Vinyl/Rubber Cleaner/Conditioner 15-25%

STP Son of A Gun Vinyl Protectant 15-30%

Penz/Shell's

- Black Magic Professional Protectant 10-50%

- Trak Protectant 10-30%

Non-hazardous ingredients:

CAS Registry Number 999999-57-5

Lexol Vinylex Protectant % not listed

but

Bonide Leaf Shine and Moisture Guard a pesticide = 100%

couldn't find anything on Zymol, One Grand or Harly yet...

Chris Wrote:

>....the general consensus is that silicon emulsions are common, inexpensive

>compounds used as replacement fillers for the natual off-gassing of vinyl. Over time,

>the silicon will accelerate the off-gassing process by creating light reflection and

>differential heating of the material - hot spots.

Light reflection??? in a Black Dash?..

I do not believe that the "general consensus" is anything close to the truth. I can't believe that Meguiars, STP, Shell Oil, Clorox etc... would put anything in their products, that would be harmful to the very products they claim to "protect".

All these companies, have experienced and expert Chemists working for them, that know what they are doing. I'll see if I can get ahold of one.

FWIW,

Carl

[26th-Z]

Light reflection??? in a Black Dash?..

I do not believe that the "general consensus" is anything close to the truth. I can't believe that Meguiars, STP, Shell Oil, Clorox etc... would put anything in their products, that would be harmful to the very products they claim to "protect".

All these companies, have experienced and expert Chemists working for them, that know what they are doing. I'll see if I can get ahold of one.

FWIW,

Carl

Thanks for the info Carl!!

As a basic concept, black is what we see when light is absorbed. White is what we see when light is reflected. Yes, the silicon is affected by light on a black dash.

Of course these companies would use something eventually harmful to the product they claim to protect. I think Enrique coined the word "heroine" for this conversation in his description of planned obsolecense. Of course their chemists know what they are doing.

Carl, I'm sorry if I offended you or something. I'm happy you have had good results from using Armor All. I have not. Perhaps it is because my car sits out in the weather all day in the office parking lot. But, to deal with the problem of sun and weather on my car, I talk to a lot of detail guys and look at a lot of products. That's what I meant by "general concensus". There are several other posts relaying similar conversations with similar people who work with vinyl, plastic, and rubber materials. In this respect, I consider the collective experience of upholsterers, painters, and detailers quite valuable and far more suited to an end user like me.

[1GENZED]

Hey

Do you guys know/remember how hard the dash surface was, when the zed was new.

Did it feel hard like plastic (like it does now), or did it feel like soft vinyl, over a hard surface, or did it have a little bit of give like it had a foam backing.

I have a 1986 Jetta as well, that I used to use Armour All on, the dash was flawless.

I stopped using it after I heard it was bad stuff. I soon after started to develop cracks on the dash.

[hls30.com]

Original dashes and those that have been re-done by Dash Restoration feel somewhat pliable. They have some "give" to the surface-they are built up with scolpted foam!

They crack as they dry out and become hard as they shrinkfrom drying out.

Will