Posted to the mailing list by Carl Beck:

Hi Gang:

In my earlier Post - I referred to a "#1, #2 and #3 car"... several

people ask exactly what that meant. So I thought I'd Post this

information again.

"The Old Cars Price Guide" is just one of several value guides

published in the Classic, Collectible and Special Interest market.

The values given are just "guides".. not absolute values and they are

based on data collected at public auctions and reported from

speciality dealers as well as experts for the various marquees.

The National Automobile Dealers Association (NADA) also publishes

price guides - their "Cars of Particular Interest" (CPI) book covers

Classic, Collectible and Special Interest Automobiles. Automobile

Dealers that belong to NADA fill out sales forms for every car they

sell and report the sales data to NADA - who in turn publish the data

in their value guides.

At any point in time - any of these guides can be badly out of date

for any particular marque. Usually the keep the most popular

marquees (Ford, Chevy, Ferrari etc) pretty current because lots of

them are bought/sold at the monthly auctions and because most of the

people buying their price guides buy/sell those cars. For many years

the values of Datsun 240-Z's lagged the market prices - within the

last two years however the guides seem to have been catching up with

the actual market (no doubt Nissan's Vintage Z Program helped in that

regard).

Below are the quality grade/ranking/evaluations - definitions. found

in the Old Cars Price Guide - and I put the "values" from my earlier

Post on this subject beside them in brackets. Also note that these

value guides apply ONLY to Pure Stock/Original examples.

Old Cars Price Guide says:

#1 EXCELLENT ($16K to $18K) - Restored to current maximum

professional standards of quality in every area, or perfect original

with components operating and appearing as new. A 95+ point show

car that is not driven.

In national show judging a car in #1 condition is likely to win top

honors in it's class. In a sense it has ceased to be an automobile

and has become an object of art. It is transported to shows in an

enclosed trailer, and, when not being shown it is stored in a climate

controlled facility. It is not driven. There are very few #1 cars.

#2 FINE: ($12.5K to $14.5K) - Well-restored, or a combination of

superior restoration and excellent original. Also an extremely well

maintained original showing very minimal wear.

Except for the very closest of inspection a #2 vehicle may appear as

a #1. The #2 vehicle will take the top award in many judged shows,

except when squared off against a #1 example in its own class. It

may also be driven 800 - 1,000 miles each year to shows, on tours,

and simply for pleasure.

#3 - Very Good: ($7.5 to $8.5K) Completely operable original or

"older restoration" showing wear. Also, a good amateur restoration,

all presentable and serviceable inside and out. Plus combinations of

well-done restoration and good operable components; or a partially

restored car with all parts necessary to complete it and/or valuable

NOS parts.

This is a 20 footer - that is, from 20 feet away it may look perfect. But

as we approach it, we begin to notice that the paint may be getting a

little thin in spots from frequent washing and polishing. Looking inside

we might detect some wear on the drivers seat, foot pedals, and carpet.

The chrome trim while still quite presentable, may have lost the sharp

mirror like reflective quality it had when new. All systems and equipment

on the car are in good operating order. In general, most of the vehicles

seen at car shows are #3's.....

#4 Good: ($4.5K) - A driveable vehicle needing no or only minor work to be

functional. Also, a deteriorated restoration or a very poor amateur

restoration. All components may need restoration to be excellent, the car

is mostly usable "as is".

This is a driver - It may be in the process of restoration or it owner may

have big plans, but even from 20 feet away, there is no doubt that it needs

a lot of help..

#5 Restorable ($2.5K to $3.5K) - Needs complete restoration of body,

chassis, and interior.

May or may not be running, but isn't weathered, wrecked, and/or stripped to

the point of being useful only for parts.

This car needs everything. It may not be operable, but it is essentially

all there and has only minor surface rust, if any rust at all. While

presenting a real challenge to the restorer, it won;t have him doing a lot

of chasing for missing parts.

#6 Parts Car - May or may not be running, but is weathered, wrecked, and/or

stripped to the point of being useful primarily for parts.

== = = = = = = = = end OCPG quote = = = = = = = = = =

Also keep in mind that these guides are written mostly for

"Collectors" and "Restorers" so they judge cars very critically. If

there is any question in your mind which category a car may fall into

- it automatically falls into the next lower classification.

Also keep in mind that supply and demand play a huge role in

valuations - people will pay over the value guides as supplies dry

up, if there are limited numbers of cars in their area of the country

etc.

Let's face it - the most expensive 240-Z's are still cheap relative

to todays pricing on cars - so a grand or three one way or the other

won't stop the world.

FWIW,

Carl

Carl Beck

Clearwater,FL USA

IZCC #260

http://ZHome.com

69, 70, 71, 72, 72 & 73 BRE Z

------------------------------------

Internet 240z Club - http://www.240z.org

To unsubscribe: http://www.240z.org/mailman/listinfo/list

those prices seem to represent Australian Z cars also... only difference is those are AMERICAN dollars...

So I guess that means Z's are worth double the amount over there

Mike thanks for posting the guide to 1, 2 and 3 cars it was very informative, a great explanation and my hat off to Karl Beck for putting it across so well. From where I am standing I think probably qty 4 cars in this country would rate a 1 but then the line dulls through the cars rated at 2 which is probably 50 cars in reality here. In competition the 2 rated cars rarely confront a 1 rated car at judging so that is where the line dulls. I can make that statement as my meager efforts could probably achieve a car rating of 40 in a 10 grade rating system.

So as not to confuse anyone when I stand 20M from any 240Z I always see a car rated 1 (my eye specialist confirms).

thats my 2c

Steve:classic:

Just picked up a copy of "Sports Car Market" magazine published in Portland, OR and thought of this thread. www.sportscarmarket.com Check out the site as they discuss cars in the terms Carl posted. They use +/- indications to describe what may be the grey areas between condition ratings. I also found thier explanations and grading of particular cars to be a little more lenient than the sounds of descriptions posted above. For instance, their description of a #1 car or a #1- included particular flaws or "nitpicking points".

Also this graph describing current market value of the 240Z in America.